Daredevil Message Board

[jriddle]

I've been away from Daredevil (and here) for a while now--too long, really. Haven't been a regular with the book since before Brubaker ended (economic reasons). Thankfully, I missed the business about which I've been told wherein Matt is possessed by a demon or some such nonsense. I did try the first few issues of Mark Waid's DD. I am, to put it kindly, not a fan of Waid; to put it more bluntly, he's a gimmick-obsessed hack who is, ideologically speaking, stuck in DC's early (bad) Silver Age. His ideological opposition to the very things that made DD special--its darkness, its maturity, its psychological depth, etc.--played out in his awful "Kingdom Come," and when, as I was considering trying to return, it was announced he was going to be working on DD, most of the wind went out of my sails. His announced plans confirmed he was aiming for a kinder, gentler Daredevil. I bent enough to take in his first few issues and it just confirmed my expectations. Waid had stripped the book of everything that made it special and unique and had reverted it right back to the poor-man's-Spider-Man it had been before it had found its own voice.

A few years go by, I check back in, and he's still on the book and apparently getting by on the kind of mile-a-minute gimmicks that mark his entire career. DD in San Francisco. A new #1 issue. A few days ago, I was flabbergasted when I was told he'd had Matt fess up in public and even describe the nature of DD's powers. Waid only sees this sort of thing as a useful gimmick to up his own sales, but it inflicts a permanent, disfiguring scar on the character and his world. Waid still has a louder-than-large fanbase that praises his work even while describing things he's done that are, in the context of DD, of such misconceived idiocy that I'm left trying to keep my jaw out of the floor. They're his fans, not, for the most part, DD fans, and when he leaves the book they'll move on with him and overhype his next bit of hackwork. They always do.

And that's what occasions my comments here just now. I've been a DD fan since before Miller. When it comes to comics, I'm a Marvel guy, and this is my favorite character. Like most of Marvel's characters, he has survived some pretty awful mistreatment over the years. The business is much more fragile now than it ever has been though. I haven't looked into DD's sales figures under Waid but the relaunch means they have to be pretty low. He has fundamentally changed the character of the book then stayed on it for a long time, making himself the status quo. If, after he finally leaves, someone comes in, tries to fix the mess he's made and returns the book to something more like Daredevil, how is that going to be received? The worst thing that could possibly happen is a new writer (or string of them) who wants to continue in Waid's vein. I've been quite excited about the DD Newflix series, but is it going to be Daredevil or is it going to be Waid's poor-man's-Spider-Man clone? What does Waid's Daredevil-in-name-only mean for the future of DD?

[Marcus Plato]

I couldn't agree more! Check out my "Losing Faith" post... Every DD fan I've talked to here in Australia thinks the same thing. Marvel has lost its mind when it comes to our favorite character. Personally, I think Disney is attempting to make the MU more family friendly, even though they said they wouldn't interfere when they bought Marvel. Sad times indeed! Hope the current team checks this (wonderful) site and has a good long think about what they've done. For fans of the current run... actually, are there any?

[Dragonbat]

There are a few of us...

To be fair, I'm late to the party. I'm a (quickly-becoming) former DC fan fleeing the reboot. About two years ago, I picked up (Waid's) DD #18... and remembered a time when I used to be excited about comics instead of buying them through force of habit. I fell in love with the comic and with the character, added DD to my pull-list and then headed first to Comixology and later to Marvel Unlimited to catch up on whatever portion of the last 50 years was digitally available.

Personally, I don't mind if a story goes dark on me, but I need to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel (and that it's not an oncoming train). I think that had I been reading Volume 2 when it first came out, I would have dropped the title somewhere in the middle of Brubaker's run. However, knowing that when Volume 3 rolled around, things were going to get brighten up, I found that I was able to enjoy the noir period without asking myself "How much more are they going to put him through?" I'm a Nightwing fan. This is not a question I enjoy asking myself, because I never like the answer...

I do get where you folk are coming from. Believe me, it's hard for me to see where DC's fans are coming from post-reboot (although I know that they're out there). But, yes. I'm a fan of Waid's DD. And Bendis's. And Brubaker's. And Miller's. And... probably a bunch of others too.

[Daredevil24]

I couldn't agree more with you.Daredevil means so much to me ,he's been my favorite for years but Mark Waid and his fan base has done everything possible to make me stop reading DD. I have stoped reading it but I still collect it to help keep it on the shelf hoping whoever writes it next will bring the title back to it's glory. The Netflix series will be dark and gritty so I don't think we have to worry about it being Waid's Scooby doo overrated version. I honestly have never seen a writer on DD get as much praise as Waid,the ratings that sites like comic vine cbr and ign give him is utterly ridiculous,I mean nothing can happen in the issue and they'll still give a 5/5 or a 10/10. I can't stand this verion of DD,seriously if people want a witty swash buckling hero they should read Spider-Man Hawkeye or Fantastic 4 but leave DD Punisher Moon Knight Elektra and Iron Fist for the more mature audiences ..Here is hoping that this is Waid's last year of ruining DD.Rant Over

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[Dimetre]

I'm a long-time Daredevil fan too. I first picked up the book in 1985 when Denny O'Neil was writing and Mazzuchelli was pencilling. Loved it right away. I think Frank Miller's Daredevil work is some of the best work in the entire medium. But I'm guess I'm different from a lot of the other fans here.

I was driven crazy by Bendis' long run on the book. So crazy that I didn't buy the book for close to 30 issues until Brubaker took over. I found the book too slow, too dark and the artwork too stiff. And incredibly gimmicky. And I found Matt had become unlikeable.

Brubaker, in my opinion, repaired a lot of Bendis' damage. Then Diggle took over, and the darkness became extreme and unrelenting. And idiotic. Diggle's choices as a writer put a permanent scar on Daredevil as a character, so much so that I think everyone in Marvel is pretending that scar isn't there.

After Shadowland, Marvel knew Daredevil had to change direction. I was surprised by how much and for how long I enjoyed Volume 3. The only issues I didn't enjoy were the Halloween ones. But I think Waid understands who Matt is very well, and I love how respectfully he dealt with Foggy's cancer. When Daredevil chose to reveal his identity at the end of Volume 3, I bought it, because it seemed like a tactic his Matt would employ to keep Foggy safe, and the situation demanded it. When Bendis had Matt sue the Globe for printing the truth, I hated it, because the Matt I had followed for decades wouldn't have done that, and wouldn't compromise his ethics that way.

I haven't enjoyed Volume 4 as much, and I can't imagine Waid would want to write this book much longer, but I hear sales are good. Some youtube video reviewing a recent issue said it's now a top 10 book.

[Daredevil24]

You're right. I think the only way to return to DD to his glory is a reboot or a date with Mephisto. But on a positive note other writers have written DD in character during Waid's tenure on the book.Writers like Rick Remender,Nathan Edmondson,Ed Brubaker and Bendis have all wrote DD well outside of Waid during his run on the book

[Ash-n-Bone]

Well its good to see that I'm not the only one who wants some of the old DD type of content back.

Here's my theory. The readers who have been giving Waid's run an enormous amount of praise are those who typically love titles like FF, Thor, and X Men. They love the lighter tone, and have stuck with the books that have carried this formula for years. Daredevil may not be even in their top 5 list of comics.

Whereas we here are strict DD fans, who fell in love with the darker stories told by Miller, Bendis, and the rest. Now that Waid has injected DD with a more swashbuckling feel, the Thor and FF fans are loving the book. But if DD goes back to being dark, will these "fans" continue reading? I doubt it.

Its the wider fanbase who spread their love amongst several titles vs. us who spend the majority of their time and money of DD.

As it is now, majority rules I'm afraid.

Lets just hope someone with a more brutal vision for DD comes along soon.

[jriddle]

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[Dimetre]

[Daredevil24]

Bendis understands Matt just fine imo..Let's not pretend like Matt was never written like A-hole,he treated Natasha pretty poorly and he also treated Heather Glenn pretty poorly.Overall he's a pretty nice and decent guy but when he's under stress he has a history of acting like a jerk.I also think Waid's characterization of Matt is horrible,replace Matt with Peter Parker and you essentially have the same story in my honest opinion.Not one version of Matt would have went to a Christmas party with a sweater that reads I'm not Daredevil

[DesignDevil]

Personally, I like Matt Murdock as an asshole. I thought Bendis' storylines were a perfect progression of the character. Frank Miller, I believe when he wrote The Man Without Fear, described Matt as a man who should have been a villain. He has every excuse, but always walks that morally grey area between hero and villain. He lies everyday. He breaks his promise to his father and his oath as a lawyer every time he puts on that suit. He's faked his death before and pulled all kinds of unethical stunts in the courtroom to preserve his identity.

The biggest BS moment of Waid's run was "resolution" of the Serpent arc where he admits everything. Given Daredevil's history there is no way he would not have gone back to jail or been a fugitive. Even is by some miracle he didn't go to jail, he certainly wouldn't be able to just leave the state and set up shop somewhere else. Countless people would've come out of the woodwork to sue Murdock from here to kingdom come. Bendis and Brubaker very eloquently and perfectly showed why Matt Murdock could never out himself, but Waid decided to ignore all that.

I've been a fan of Waid's run until the last year or so. Lately he's been embracing all of his worst instincts, the biggest being juvenile humor that belongs in an Archie comic.

I wonder if the netflix series may "force" a return of sorts to the more mature Daredevil some of us prefer. Phrases like "crime drama" and "alleys smelling of blood and piss" have been thrown around in describing the series. Kingpin will obviously be a big part. Marvel is notorious for pushing characters and story elements from their movies in the comics. I wonder if they might want the Daredevil comic to be more "crime drama" featuring Kingpin next year when the new show drops. Or possibly a second series that is a more traditional and mature take on Daredevil.

[Dimetre]