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Daredevil Message Board The Board Without Fear!
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The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
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Dayle88 Playing to the Camera
Joined: 25 Mar 2015 Posts: 140
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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The kind of events DD could be the centre of are probably similar to some of the Batman event ideas. An earthquake, the city locked down, a zero year type thing.
The problem is the Avengers are up the road. Personally I'd be happy to accept that all the heavy hitters are unavailable. Other than something major affecting the city though it would be hard to justify a story as an event rather than just an arc.
Personally I'd rather not have an official event because they'd probably jack up the cost.
I'd love to see the occasional Daredevil arc featuring characters like Moon Knight and others in a 'bigger' story though. |
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Dimetre Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 1366 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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RGdesigner wrote: | Matt Murdock becoming the leader of the Hand was one of the best story ideas anyone had ever come up with for the character. Brubaker executed it masterfully. Nothing but potential. Years worth of stories could have been explored from this. |
I love Brubaker, but I was very nervous when representatives of the Hand showed up and asked Matt to be their leader. That didn't make sense to me. Why would the Hand approach Daredevil, of all people. He was trained by Stick, a member of their rivals in The Chaste. He has fought against them many times, so he's not an ally. And I didn't buy that Matt would be naive enough to think he could remold the Hand into a force for good. At least Brubaker had Matt initially refuse their request, but he relented.
RGdesigner wrote: | Diggle I thought took the ball and ran with with it fine right up to the actual Shadowland story. Literally from one issue to the next Matt went from playing this grand chess game and not so subtle hints that he was being influenced to a full blown cartoon villain. it was like we skipped a year of issues. |
I thought Diggle's first few issues were okay. I remember De La Torre's art was good, and Marco Checchetto was great. The story where Matt had to deal with a rival inside the Hand was pretty good.
RGdesigner wrote: | Suddenly all his friends, most of whom have had their turns being mind controlled, were like "Well we gotta kill him." But then they all just leave Kingpin in charge of a giant ninja fortress in the middle of NY.
The actual Daredevil issues dealing with Foggy, Dakota, and Becky were solid, they just made no sense unless you read Shadowland. |
I think Daredevil #512 has to be among the worst issues ever. The final page has Matt monologuing that when he murdered Bullseye, that was him. He was not being controlled by the Beast at that point. He consciously decided to kill Bullseye, and carried it out. I absolutely believe that you can't have Daredevil do that and still call him Daredevil. I will never forgive Andy Diggle for that. Until the end of time I will have to deal with people holding up #512 as an example that Matt kills, and that's okay. That issue has no business existing.
I think it's possible to do a cross-over event with Marvel's street level heroes in which Daredevil plays a central role. Shadowland wasn't it. |
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DesignDevil Playing to the Camera
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Posts: 157 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Why would the Hand approach Daredevil, of all people. He was trained by Stick, a member of their rivals in The Chaste. He has fought against them many times, so he's not an ally. And I didn't buy that Matt would be naive enough to think he could remold the Hand into a force for good. At least Brubaker had Matt initially refuse their request, but he relented. |
The Hand's whole deal since they were introduced has been taking warriors, often enemies, and trying to brainwash them.
Also Brubaker was building heavily on Miller's work and in The Man Without Fear its established that The Hand have a specific interest in Matt and Elektra as the only two "Adepts" in this generation. People can debate the canon status of TMWF, but its pretty given that all the Stick elements are accepted as happened.
I liked that Matt decided to go after his enemy. He had nothing left to lose and had to keep Fisk from taking his place. Thats the tragic part of how Shadowland played out. It should have been the culmination of over two decades of stories, a grand confrontation between Matt, Elektra and The Hand. It should have been a slow buildup, it should have been Matt actually being corrupted and fighting his way back to the light, not some demon possession nonsense. Instead we got a ridiculous paint-by-numbers story from the Marvel editors that nearly ruined the character.
As far as Matt killing Bullseye, we'll just agree to disagree. He should've done that years sooner. The problem, I'll agree, was in the execution of the demon bs. Marvel and the writers going back and forth on whether he was actually himself when he did it was bush-league. |
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Mike Murdock Golden Age

Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Posts: 1750
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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The Hand always had an element of supernatural corruption (well, at least going back to the issue where Elektra was resurrected) so I have no problem with that in principle. I just wish it was more like Miller's issue (which was far more subtle and quasi-metaphorical). Certainly, something that stopped short of flames shooting out of his eyes. _________________ Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother
Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!
I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons |
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Darkdevil Humanity's Fathom

Joined: 04 Apr 2009 Posts: 331 Location: The Bright, Sunny South
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I loved the potential that Matt assuming control of the Hand held for the character. Miller's elements of he and Elektra being the only two 'adepts' born in their generation held sway over that decision and rather than being naive about it, I think Matt was arrogant enough to believe that he could affect change from within and still remain a 'hero' at heart.
But what could have been a very strong moral tale about Matt perhaps rising above any corrupting influences of the group while realizing that his reach of goals may have exceeded his grasp instead turns into a straight-up demon possession story.
Any potential moral consequence of his later actions is now rendered moot because the demon made him do it. Even his killing Bullseye is turned into just another step of his road to possession instead of being the huge moral dilemma that it should have been.
I liked the ambition of Shadowland but the resultant story was a letdown and waste of potential. |
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Acerbus Flying Blind

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 96 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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I've always seen the 'Beast' possession as a bit of a cop-out. All of the things Matt is doing over the course of Shadowland - given the wringer he was put through during Bendis/Brubaker's runs - were (while admittedly extreme) a fairly logical extension of his increasingly aberrant reactions to recent crises. To hand-wave that away with 'Meh. Demonic possession', at least to me, seemed a bit cheap.
To me, that's no worse than Mark Waid's run, where Matt is subjected to one harrowing circumstance after another... and instead of actually being affected by it, emerges with a lame pop culture reference or one-liner to brush it off. |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Acerbus wrote: | I've always seen the 'Beast' possession as a bit of a cop-out. All of the things Matt is doing over the course of Shadowland - given the wringer he was put through during Bendis/Brubaker's runs - were (while admittedly extreme) a fairly logical extension of his increasingly aberrant reactions to recent crises. To hand-wave that away with 'Meh. Demonic possession', at least to me, seemed a bit cheap.
To me, that's no worse than Mark Waid's run, where Matt is subjected to one harrowing circumstance after another... and instead of actually being affected by it, emerges with a lame pop culture reference or one-liner to brush it off. |
Like when he curled up in a depressed ball at the end of the Purple Man arc? _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Acerbus Flying Blind

Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 96 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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...and was back on his feet, firing off pop culture references like an unfunny Howitzer by the next issue?
The peerless writing prowess of Mark Waid, ladies and gentlemen. |
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