Daredevil Message Board

[DesignDevil]

[WilsonFisk]

[WilsonFisk]

[WilsonFisk]

[beneverett]

My final two cents on this whole thing.

From the numbers I've seen (though I don't actively study these things) It appears that single-issue sales have been declining over the past decade, and maybe even earlier then that. And this seems to be something that the whole industry is dealing with to a large degree, not just Marvel and this particular title. The numbers remain steady, so the argument that Waid has hurt the book, at least in terms of sales, isn't terribly convincing to me. If comics sold as well as they did at least 30 years ago, then it might be a valid point.

This "DD is blind Spider-Man" thing is hogwash. If anything, I think Matt/DD has been behaving much more responsibly over the past few years then Spidey has in a long while.

Chris Samnee is an incredible artist, I only wish I'd known of him sooner. If anyone dislikes his artwork, that's fine. But some of the comments I've seen thrown around here about the man's work are not only simplistic and uninformed, but just plain insulting.

The whole Silver Age redux argument doesn't ring true to me either. Frankly, any declaration that anything from the Silver Age or pre-Miller is somehow invalid is asinine. I could agree that many writers pre-Miller didn't quite know how to handle the character or at least pin him down, but Waid clearly doesn't have that problem. He is aware of what has come pre and post Miller, and is building on it in what I think is a very thoughtful way. He knows (like every great writer on the title) that DD's worst enemy is himself, he's just presenting it differently.

And this "oppressive optimism" garbage? These comments from http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?25222-When-Mark-Waid-s-run-on-Daredevil-has-finished-will-Daredevil-be-dark-again
sum up my feelings on that issue:
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Originally Posted by gurkle
I think when people describe it as not dark they're talking about two things that set it apart from the previous 30 years of Daredevil. One is that it acknowledges Matt has a pretty good, fun life in many ways. And the other is that it doesn't look dark and grim. It can do dark and grim stories and make Matt's life miserable as usual, but fundamentally it seems to come from an optimistic place in a way we hadn't seen since the ending of Born Again.
[reply by FanboyStranger]
I'll agree on the "it doesn't look dark" as Samnee's art and the brighter palette doesn't scream "grim'n'gritty", but almost every issue of DD I've read since Waid started has this subtext of Matt walking on the razor's edge of another nervous breakdown. Superficially, it seems like fun to be Matt because he's putting up a good front, but that's because he's in denial about his life, which is why Foggy was checking him. Then, with his move to San Fran, things seemed better for him-- at least after they got Foggy out of danger to continue his treatment-- but since he's been there, he's had The Shroud using him as a pawn/punching bag in a gang war, revelations about his family life and the lies he's believed, and the Purple Man's kids running wild destroying anyone in their way. There's been some pretty heavy stuff going down, but Waid's assuming that we don't need to be told how hard Matt has it every other page.

In Waid's DD, we've had: murder, grave-robbing, decapitation, cancer, more murder, racist conspiracies, dark magic, organized crime wars, family secrets involving violence and post-partum depression, and mind-controlling, psychopathic teens run amok. This isn't bright stuff.
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FS neglected to mention other story points involving drug smuggling, human trafficking, suicide, torture, child abuse and implied rape.

[james castle]

[james castle]

[WilsonFisk]

Great post, beneverett, and ditto on the praise for Chris Samnee. The guy is a gifted artist and an incredible storyteller, one of my favourites working today.

[jriddle]

[WilsonFisk]

Good catch on Brubaker's Eisner wins, I'll acknowledge I overlooked that. I forgot he won those awards while also writing DAREDEVIL, as he was also doing CRIMINAL and CAPTAIN AMERICA at the time. Though it should be pointed out that, though DAREDEVIL was nominated for an Eisner for Best Continuing Series during Brubaker's run, the Waid/Samnee run is the first time DAREDEVIL has won the Eisner for Best Continuing Series since Bendis and Maleev won it back in 2003, over a decade ago. And Chris Samnee's win for Best Artist is, I believe, the first time an artist has won the award for work on DAREDEVIL since the Eisner Awards were founded back in 1988, though Miller and Mazzuchelli may have won one in their predecessors, the Kirby Awards, I'd have to check.

[Mike Murdock]

[jriddle]

[WilsonFisk]

[Darkdevil]

And so it goes.....

I knew some here would be cheering from the rafters about the news of Waid's departure. For those of us who've enjoyed Waid's run, such as myself, I'm sad to see his departure but really, we all knew that this day was coming at some point.

I do believe that Waid's work has been greatly enhanced by the artistry of Samnee, almost to the same degree that Mike Wieringo was able achieve when he worked with Waid. So I hope this isn't the last work we'll see from this creative duo.

We all love DD so hopefully, whatever changes (or retcons) come from the next creative team, we will all find something to cheer for and love about the future of DD.

[Nightwing2001]

I just wanted to bring something up about the sales that I haven't seen anyone address yet and that is I think the slow decline in Daredevil's sales (and sales of most comics in general) can also be attributed to the fact a lot of comic buyers are now into waiting for trades instead of buying monthlies. I think this is probably a lot more of a realistic reason to do with this than some kind of "this writer is a cancer and that's why the sales are slipping" conspiracy theory.

As for Waid leaving, I'm ok with it. He had a long run and I am looking forward to seeing what a new writer can bring to the title. Generally I enjoyed his run (flaws and all) Sure it wasn't perfect, but back when it started it was definetly a fresh breath of air from the doom and gloom that the comic was wallowing in. Frankly I would like to see the book get a little darker in tone again once Waid leaves but nothing to that extent again.