Daredevil Message Board

[Foggy's Pal]

In the preview to #5, Ghost Rider is shown scaling the side of Shadowland, but in the end of DD 511, he is hanging upside down in Shadowland after being beaten by Daredevil. Did I miss something?

[Foggy's Pal]

Here's the link:

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=40235&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+newsaramacomics+(Newsarama.com+comics)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[Kuljit Mithra]

Or on this very site: http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Shadowland-5

(I tease, I tease)
_________________
Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com

[Foggy's Pal]

I bow as Foggy to your DD-ness.

[Kuljit Mithra]

There does seem to be some weird meshing of timeline with DD511, considering we didn't really see Ghost Rider giving Foggy a lift either.
_________________
Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com

[Dimetre]

Well, Shadowland is finally over, and I think it's a disaster.

One saving grace: Matt ends the series alive. But I'm pissed off that Diggle took it upon himself to tell us that Matt was in his right mind when he murdered Bullseye. (This is actually at the end of Daredevil #512). I strongly disagree with those who say that Matt is a killer because of #181 and the helicopter pilot in Born Again. In those cases I say that he had no choice but to do what he did. Shadowland #1 he really did have a choice, especially since he had gotten the upper hand in the fight. This was very out of character, and because of this I believe Diggle has no business writing Daredevil comics.

I also thought it was very irresponsible for Diggle, during the "internal" scenes, to have Elektra hand Matt a samurai sword and tell him to "Be a man. Be a man without fear," before he impales himself.

In regards to that scene, because all that action was internal -- inside Matt's head -- when we return to the actual scene, it's totally unclear as to what actually happened. Foggy is trying to revive him with CPR and Iron Fist is detecting a life force, but there is no knife in his torso, and the way people are talking to Elektra, it doesn't appear as if she did anything to cause his injury. It's all very unclear as to what's going on. Very sloppy.

Anyway, I think that Shadowland was, creatively, a colossal failure. I'm not excited about Reborn, because Diggle is writing it. I think Quesada should be ashamed of himself in allowing such shoddy treatment of the character that made his career. I can't wait until there is a new creative team.

[Pete]

I stopped buying the title quite early on in the Bru run. If I'm honest I thought the title had become dull, a one note dirge that, despite it looking the part due to some nice art, just bored me to distraction.
I've only picked up the odd issue here and there since, and the sad fact is that the title has lost it's way. I read no other Marvel titles so couldn't comment on the whole line itself, but judging from Dimetre's astute observations, it's clear that the current creative team, and the big Chief himself, are bereft of any idea about how to handle the character of Matt Murdock.
From what little I've seen myself, and judging by others comments here, DD has become just another hack job, written and led by people, who whilst displaying an endless flow of ideas (all crap), have unfortunately either no talent or have lost what little talent they might have once possessed.

Like other forgetable directions this title has taken (Fall from Grace) the current regime seem intent of making some kind of statement, some dramatic shift of emphasis or direction, shake the very foundations of the title....which they proceed to do very forgettably whilst regular readers of the book either stop buying or just pretend it all never happened.

DD has kind of been in limbo for me since Bendis and Maleev left. That is a long time ago. Lots of things, and yet at the same time not much really, has happened since.

[Minion]

Andy Diggle has actually made me dislike Daredevil. The character that got me back into comics, and I don't know if I'll ever forgive him for that. I'm not even sure if I'll check out Daredevil Reborn.

Shadowland = One More Day
_________________
Random Insanity since.... Ummmmm... Tuesday?

[kentuckydevil]

does anyone like shadowland?

this board seems pissed and sad all at the same time....

[tmckenna]

Pissed and sad sound like good adjectives.

The ending seemed almost as hokey as Captain America surrendering at the end of Civil War #7.

I'd be curious to hear more opinions...

--Tom

[the gael]

Bad, bad, bad...
Civil War made me hate Iron Man. But what happened now to my favorite superheroes is even more infamous.

Why did everyone try to copy Frank Miller, it's beyond me. Every writer wants his own "born again", and each time the result is even worst.

While Ann Nocenti did a great job with her Typhoid Mary storyline, and Matt downfall and rebirth, Chichester's "fall from grace" felt very artificial and bring us the atrocious jack battling storyline. By then, the "born again" concept was getting old, but it didn't discourage writers to continue ! Then came mister Kevin Smith, and his stupid "guardian devil". Way worst than all the previous attempt, but, at least, it wasn't shadowland.

Yes, Shadowlands is even worst, by portraying Matt as the gratuitous murderer who is even capable to beat / brainwash / kill his own friends to serve his goal (Hello civil war tony stark 2)

I know that there is that stupid "possession by the beast story" to make him less guilty, but it's bad. Sorry Andy Diggle, it's really, really bad.

Pissed and sad are really good adjectives...

[Pete]

[Foggy's Pal]

Pete, you're completely right. However, I will be reading Reborn, good or bad. I just want Matt re-instated as the person he was before, and then a new team who understands Matt on this book. I just want to read about my favorite character when he isn't crapping on his best friends and killing.

[Darkdevil]

I guess, for the way this event has been portrayed, this was as good an ending as any, but it still left a lot to be desired.

To me, Jameson's comment summed this event up perfectly.'Where are the Avengers?' By bringing in the Beast and the possession of Matt, the growing effect of hatred throughout New York, they elevated the story far beyond a mere 'street-level fighter' story (which I thought it what this event was supposed to be) to an event where the big guns should've been stepping up but never do for unknown or unexplained reasons. Poor writing.

Ghost Rider helped Foggy scale Shadowland?? I haven't read most of the tie-ins to this event, but from what I gather reading here and elsewhere on-line, this isn't the first instance of an inconsistent timeline. This looked just as bad. Poor writing.

My biggest gripe, however, is the dream sequence. Seriously, after all this time, Matt still has issues with Mom? Issues with Dad? Yes, these relationships are cornerstones for the character but I would think that after Born Again and other arcs, Matt would have come to some sort of terms with this issues after all this time. Obviously not if he still has enough self-doubt and guilt to allow a demon to possess him and reign havoc on his friends and the city. Whatever happened to character growth? Is tragedy all what Matt Murdock is about? Build upon the foundation and go from there but again, poor writing.

As Dimetre pointed out, I have no idea how Elektra performed this deed. Did she save Matt at the end or was it him alone? Don't know. Also, Izo's comments afterwards seem like a complete 180 from how Brubaker portrayed him.

I'll check out Reborn for I want to see Matt Murdock rise again, complete with some measure of happiness & peace and not so much grim tragedy. I want him to be what he's always been; someone who helps people and fights for the underdogs.

[the gael]

You're right, and I think Marvel has missed the bullseye. Tragedy isn't the core of Matt story. It's not about a man who let his despair and frustation corrupt him, it's all about a normal guy, a man that can't punch planets nor has an healing factor or unbreakable bones / skin, who will never stop, never abandon.

He deeply believe in justice in a world where the word is less and less important and meaningful. And no matter the tragedies in his life, no matter the difficulties, he will never give up.

He isn't perfect. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he looses, but he should never let anything around him corrupt himself. That's a disgrace.

That's why he is suche an interesting character. He is human, relatable.