|
Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: Mr. Fear (Potenial Spoilers) |
 |
|
| What do you think of Brubaker building Mr. Fear as a major DD villain in the latest arc? Is Mr. Fear a worthy addition to post Miller DD rogues gallery? Is he worthy nemesis now that Kingpin and Bullseye are taking a break from the DD title? What do you think? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Much as I like Fisk and Bullseye as DD nemesis, the fact is that they weren't first-rate villains until Miller turned them into what they are today.
Re Fisk I particularly liked his showdown with Murdock in #93: no fight, just two longtime enemies who know each other too well talking about a woman they both respected, and reluctantly reaching a -temporary?- agreemen . Unlike JMS & Spidey's recent fisticuffs brawl with Kingpin, Brubaker's approach to Fisk and Murdock's enmity was both classy and deep, with a fine understanding of what makes both men tick.
However, much as I like the Kingpin, I'd like Wilson to take a rest from his old feud with DD: otherwise we'll get overuse or opportunistic misuse of his character as in "Back in Black"
But returning to your question: yes, I think that Mr. Fear, as well as other villains, can be reworked into a remarkable nemesi, Brubaker has created an incredible build-up up to #99 'srevelation: the reader has now the feeling that this guy in the skull mask isn't someone to diss... But then I think that Brubaker could make a fine villain even from the Stilt-Man
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gloria wrote: | Much as I like Fisk and Bullseye as DD nemesis, the fact is that they weren't first-rate villains until Miller turned them into what they are today.
Re Fisk I particularly liked his showdown with Murdock in #93: no fight, just two longtime enemies who know each other too well talking about a woman they both respected, and reluctantly reaching a -temporary?- agreemen . Unlike JMS & Spidey's recent fisticuffs brawl with Kingpin, Brubaker's approach to Fisk and Murdock's enmity was both classy and deep, with a fine understanding of what makes both men tick.
However, much as I like the Kingpin, I'd like Wilson to take a rest from his old feud with DD: otherwise we'll get overuse or opportunistic misuse of his character as in "Back in Black"
But returning to your question: yes, I think that Mr. Fear, as well as other villains, can be reworked into a remarkable nemesi, Brubaker has created an incredible build-up up to #99 'srevelation: the reader has now the feeling that this guy in the skull mask isn't someone to diss... But then I think that Brubaker could make a fine villain even from the Stilt-Man |
Well there is a saying "there are no bad characters, only bad writers", if Gail Simone can make a good character out of Catman, almost anything is possible. Of course making someone as goofy as Stilt-man work in the post Miller years would take a minor miracle. 
Anyway Kingpin and Bullseye taking a bit of vacation from DD is a bit of a good thing, considering writers were relying on them a bit too much and they were becoming overexposed (though Bulls in T-bolts still mans he is overexposed), even the best villain can become stale if overexposed (ex: the Joker).
Besides I always think it is worthy venture to revamp B-list and C-list villains, if Geoff Johns can revamp Flash's rogues gallery, there is no reason why Brubaker can't do same thing with DD's B-list rogues.
Purple Man is very depraved and vile, he would make a great DD rogue again.
Typhoid Mary- Unlike others I think she is sympathetic character, considering at least one of her personalties is innocent. She is insane, not evil, like others. One can be bad ass and sympathetic, like Two-Face.
Mr. Hyde: He is a monster with true savage streak. at least when Bullseye kills someone it is often kinda quick and clean, Hyde is the kinda person would slowly kill his victims slowly, leaving his victims as twisted broken corpses, likely in more then one piece. Plus he's a mad scientist and those are always fun, his willingness to conduct experiments on others without any concern as to their effects makes even twisted as well, as well as an intelligent foe. considering he is blind now, that may give him a reason to come after DD.
Bushwacker: I always thought his religious fundamentalism made him interesting, a assassin with a purpose, who believed what he was doing was right, even though it was completely wrong. that him different from Bullseye who was a sadistic psychopath through and through. I thought was a bit of a shame when they tried to make his personality into a copy of Bullseye's personality in the last Pun/DD mini.
Bullet: has some potential to be sympathetic character, if they can play up the fact he is single dad with a sick son. It will take some work though.
Now as for the main topic of this thread, Mr. Fear, he has a lot of potential but a few draw backs. Lots of people say he is too similar to scarecrow. Also there have been 4 different 4 Mr. Fears over the years, which can confuse people (the fact that Alan Fagan and Larry Cranston are both running around isn't helping things) plus they never really explained how Larry survived his "death" in the 70s. Also why does Larry hate Matt is particular, I know he has a inferiority, but how do that turn into a psychotic zeal to do harm against Matt? Still I have faith Brubaker to work out this issues and make Fear into a good villain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree the quality of villains (and heroes) depends heavily on the quality of writers, i.e.: Stiltman or Man-Bull don't seem to me like the greatest of villains, but, say Alan Moore's take on them could make them seem tremendous menaces. Brubaker has made the new Matador way cooler than his predecessor, and only with the little we've seen of him in a few issues.
Purple man is not my cup of tean as a villain. Is the kind of super-baddie who is so confident on his (very powerful) gift for evil-doing, that he's absolutely defenceless when this gift is neutered: Kingpin and Bullseye, which are probably DD's greatest foes, rely mostly in their brains (the former) and the skills gained through a lifetime of training (the later). They could hold their own even if they were with their hands tied at the back.
I agree that it could be interesting to have Bullet back. He was last seen in Bendis Decalogue, but I felt him to be a bit misused there.
I think that villains like Starr Saxxon (another occasional Mr. Fear) and Mycah Synn could do interesting comebacks, too
Re Cranston. I think that he was seen falling to his death long ago, but I bet that further writers took the "no corpse seen, no death" rule to make him come back. His hatred for Murdock is absolutely irrational, just some petty dislike and envy which have grown into a monster possesing him... in that sense I am of the opinion that Cranston is like a dark mirror image of Foggy Nelson. Incidentally, his sheer lack of common sense make Cranston a villain attractive in his capacity for irrational hate: Thibk for it, he could be making millions by selling the pheromone perfume... instead, he uses it to screw the life of someone who never whished him any evil (and a lot of innocent bystanders) and become the leading crime lord of just one NYC neighbourhood (and not the wealthiest of them, I think).
Larry, learn from Coco (Chanel) 
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I like Purple Man, sure he is one trick pony, that's still one hell of a trick, plus Killgrave's laziness is part of what makes his character so different from other villains, he doesn't the ambition or the need to be a powerful crime boss or the world's greatest assassin. At this point he is just screwing with heroes for fun. Plus you can make him play off other characters pretty. A mark of good rogues is having characters that play off each other as well as the hero. Considering that in her own mind, Typhoid Mary sees herself as a feminist, I don't think she would like a rapist like Purple Man. Those two fighting each other with DD caught in the middle could be fun.
While almost any villain can be interesting, some need more work than others, that's why Geoff Johns killed off Rainbow raider. stilt-Man tends to work best as a comedy character, which is how Bendis played him. Stilt-Man is not evil, honourable, compelling or even makes sense as a character, he defines the word goofy. That can make a good character to break up the usual grim and gritty tone of DD, bring in a little light hearted fun. Trying to Stilt-man bad ass misses the point of the character.
Man-Bull has it worse than Stilt-Man, at least Stilt-Man is so goofy you can't forgot him, Man-Bull is so boring than everyone forgets him. He has no motive or compelling character aspects, he is just boring. He's the poor man's Rhino. Mr. Hyde makes for a way better brick villain then Man-Bull. They have do a lot of work on him to even make me remember him at this point.
Larry Cranston has a lot of promise, but I would still like to know what in particular set him off against Matt and how he was able to deduce that Matt was DD back in the 70s. I know he has a inferiority complex, but considering his hatred of hate is so central to his character, I would like to know what set him off against Matt in particular. What was he unhappy that Matt got to have sex with Elekra in college, while was playing D&D with a mannequin in his dorm room? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Overlord wrote: | | A mark of good rogues is having characters that play off each other as well as the hero. Considering that in her own mind, Typhoid Mary sees herself as a feminist, I don't think she would like a rapist like Purple Man. Those two fighting each other with DD caught in the middle could be fun. |
A Purple Man/Typhoid Mary showdown or alliance would be interesting. They're both very, very mean.
I have my doubts to regard Typhoid Mary as a feminist (I mean, she's too destructive and wears those Playboy fishnet panties. And she's a rapist, too.
I think that she got along well with Fisk because he could resist her Mojo and strike back (which doesn't seem to feminist to me, either.
| The Overlord wrote: | | Stilt-Man is not evil, honourable, compelling or even makes sense as a character, he defines the word goofy. That can make a good character to break up the usual grim and gritty tone of DD, bring in a little light hearted fun. Trying to Stilt-man bad ass misses the point of the character. |
In the very beginning, Stiltman wasn't mean to be goofy... though it is true that nowadays he works better that way, as a character. Let's just say that Turk was once the Stilt-man (if very briefly so). Yes, an evil Stiltman would be like having G'nort masterminding an Ultimate & Final Countdown to Crisis
| The Overlord wrote: | | Larry Cranston has a lot of promise, but I would still like to know what in particular set him off against Matt and how he was able to deduce that Matt was DD back in the 70s. I know he has a inferiority complex, but considering his hatred of hate is so central to his character, I would like to know what set him off against Matt in particular. What was he unhappy that Matt got to have sex with Elekra in college, while was playing D&D with a mannequin in his dorm room? |
His resentment for Murdock (or at least back when he was introduced by Conway & Colan) comes from his envy about Murdock being talked about as a brilliant student/attorney. Elektra issues may have not been there as Elektra , as a character was a later creation, however, let's retcon that and assume it as another possible factor, too.
And if Murdock getting a girl made Cranston hate him, man, that'd be so petty! Nelson could have even more reasons to be sore about it (he was the one who had to wait outside in the corridor  ), and wasn't... possibly because he's a practical guy and seized such occasions to join a fratboy razzia with Porckhop Peterson, to try to sneak into the girl's dorm 
Cranston got the Mr. Fear chemicals and costume from a dying Zoltan Drago (the 1st Mr. Fear) who had been shot to death by Starr Saxxon (the 2nd Mr. Fear, who also learnt DDs secret ID). I don't know how Cranston learnt of DD's secret identity, he said he just tied loose ends when Murdock, DD and the Black Widow were seen together
However; I think, and hope, that Brubaker will get these thin origin facts and retcon further reasons for Cranston's hate towards Murdock.
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought what Bendis did with Purple Man in Alias, hit the perfect note. He's a serial rapist of the mind.
I've almost always enjoyed Typhoid Mary. The fact that she has an innocent side, adds a depth that I think can be used to good measure.
Bullet always looked cool. I don't know that,on his own, he is that serious of a challenge. I thought that his armaggedon-obsessed kid added an interesting element to his story.
I liked the little bit that Aguire-Sarcasa did with Mr. Hyde in Sensational S-M. I'm going to miss him on that title. The author, not Dr. Zabo.
Trying to keep track of all of those who have taken up the mantle of Mr. Fear can be tough. At least the current one, has the biggest mad-on for our hero, which can help raise the intensity level. I believe Mr. Brubaker can make any one of the above captivating.
As far as Bushwacker goes, he was never my cup of tea. I hope Bru doesn't go there.
I could see a new cheesier, emissaries of evil, with Man-Bull and Matador teaming up, but eventually their natures would make them turn on each other.
_________________
It's never too late to have a happy childhood! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thinking about Mr. Fear, I've got a few things going over my head.
Up to now, Dd wasn't aware of who was behind the crime spree in Hell's Kitchen, the Gladiator's dive into insanity, etc... BUT, once he is aware that Cranston is the guy behind it, he may be more prepared to fight back (if, hopefully he survives the first round).
I mean, from previous showdowns, the police, SHIELD, whoever, may have a record of the formulas created by Zoltan Drago, and the ways to couteract them, wheter it is a barrier method (specific gas masks, clips in the nose or diving equipments) or a counter-venom to Fear's gases and pheromone perfumes (The Enforcers, and maybe Tombstone, seem to have been provided with it).
So I'm speculating who could help Matt in this regard.
- Peter Parker could do so: He's a scientist and has a hand with chemicals. However, Parker has been putting himself in hot water that he's likely to be unavailable.
- Reed Richards: Marvel's Prime scientist could also lend a hand here. Nelson & Murdock, after all, is the firm who takes care of the FF's legal issues. Possible contras? Richards is a pro-regger and Murdock is unregistered
-Doctor Strange: previously a medical doctor, is a friend of Murdock, he's not a pro-regger and in "Guardian Devil" he expelled Mysterio's drug from Matt's body: he could do likewise with Lily's perfume, etc.
- Lastly, I don't entirely discard Vanessa leaving a note with a formula, or a box of poills or a flask with liquid for Matt somewhere... She said she had learned to plan for contingencies, didn't she?
Anyone can think of further possible allies to lend Matt a hand in this regard?
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pbblair
Flying Blind
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think writers have a thematic urge to pit these 2 against each other. "The Man Without Fear" versus "Mister Fear." That makes for an OK cover blurb, but it's not enough on a character level. I actually like the above suggestion of having villains pitted against each other with Matt in the middle... I know this isn't where this arc is going, but it sounds cooler than the now-common "I hate you because of XYZ in the past and now I am out to destroy your life" plot. If those are the only problems Matt encounters, perhaps he should just retire from being DD. Really, why continue if all you end up doing is fighting people that hate you for doing it? I much prefer the "Hey Matt and Foggy I have this legal problem involving a new bad guy that is too tough for the law to deal with... oh I only wish someone could help" plot... Matt's law position is an easy situational setup for new villain introductions... i just wish it would be leveraged more often.
Anyway, Mr Fear is fine as a villain, but i hope his motivation is deeper than just revenge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
ppblair,
even if Matt retired, now that everyone thinks/believes that he is DD, he would be still the target of many old enemies. However, he's got friends (i.e. Natasha) who might look over him in his "retirement"... and a "retired" DD would be still a tough nut to crack.
About the other thing you mentioned... man, do I miss legal action in DD!! I mean, most of the time it seems to be...
Scene in court
Matt: (in low voice):psst! Foggy! I sense a weird presence! Smells like my old enemy Copperhead! ... Will you be a pal and give me some cover up while I go out to check it up?
Foggy: *sigh* Your honor, the defence requests a brief recess (Dammit... why did I ever quit tap dancing to go to Law School?)
... and off to some red-tight action. Now seriously, I've just been reading Batton Lash' "Supernatural Law", and there you see that a legal comic (with loads of legal lingo!) can be lots of fun, too... So why don't DD writers make the most of DDs profession?
Hopefully, since Cranston is also a lawyer, we'll get plenty of court scenes in the next issues
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gloria wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | A mark of good rogues is having characters that play off each other as well as the hero. Considering that in her own mind, Typhoid Mary sees herself as a feminist, I don't think she would like a rapist like Purple Man. Those two fighting each other with DD caught in the middle could be fun. |
A Purple Man/Typhoid Mary showdown or alliance would be interesting. They're both very, very mean.
I have my doubts to regard Typhoid Mary as a feminist (I mean, she's too destructive and wears those Playboy fishnet panties. And she's a rapist, too.
I think that she got along well with Fisk because he could resist her Mojo and strike back (which doesn't seem to feminist to me, either. |
Mary has the power to influence people, but I don't think she has power of direct mind control (except for those two really stupid thugs, where she was able to use her powers to put them asleep) so I don't think she is rapist. I thought there was supposed to be a feminist sub text with Mary (considering bloody Mary kills and hates men) but I could be wrong. regardless I bet Mary would hate Purple Man, especially if he had the gall to make her his latest "girlfriend". Those two seem like the two most likely DD villains that would hate each other and when is the last DD was the middle of a super villain feud? | Gloria wrote: |
His resentment for Murdock (or at least back when he was introduced by Conway & Colan) comes from his envy about Murdock being talked about as a brilliant student/attorney. Elektra issues may have not been there as Elektra , as a character was a later creation, however, let's retcon that and assume it as another possible factor, too.
And if Murdock getting a girl made Cranston hate him, man, that'd be so petty! Nelson could have even more reasons to be sore about it (he was the one who had to wait outside in the corridor ), and wasn't... possibly because he's a practical guy and seized such occasions to join a fratboy razzia with Porckhop Peterson, to try to sneak into the girl's dorm
Cranston got the Mr. Fear chemicals and costume from a dying Zoltan Drago (the 1st Mr. Fear) who had been shot to death by Starr Saxxon (the 2nd Mr. Fear, who also learnt DDs secret ID). I don't know how Cranston learnt of DD's secret identity, he said he just tied loose ends when Murdock, DD and the Black Widow were seen together
However; I think, and hope, that Brubaker will get these thin origin facts and retcon further reasons for Cranston's hate towards Murdock. |
I was making a joke about Elektra, playing considering Cranston was supposed to be a nerd and him being made that Matt had a girlfriend while he was playing D&D would be a nerd reason to for a grudge, it wasn't a serious suggestion.
Seriously, as for Cranston, since his hatred of DD is so central to his character it does deserve some further exploring. Did they grow up in the same area? One easy explanation, is his parents were perfectionists and would only show him love if he was the "best" at everything. So when Murdock was the better the student , they would scorn him for coming in second, rather then turning in his own good performance. When Murdock was blinded Cranston would have been happy that his rival was out of the way and then shocked to find that Murdock was still the better student. They could explain why Cranston suspected Matt was DD, because Cranston was semi stalking him before he his training with stick allowed him to develop his senses. This led to a twisted obsession with Matt, in Cranston's mind Matt used those super senses to cheat, that is why his parents didn't like him, that's he developed an inferiority complex, that's why he become life's door mat. That gives Cranston a reason to blame all of his problems on DD. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Overlord wrote: | | Mary has the power to influence people, but I don't think she has power of direct mind control (except for those two really stupid thugs, where she was able to use her powers to put them asleep) so I don't think she is rapist. |
Personally, I think there's something of a rape in her alluring of Matt (while Matt is in a relationship with Karen), but then it could be just a personal perception of it. Matt seems perfectly content with Karen, but there's something that goes out of control when he's with Mary... Matt wasn't in full control of himself when with Mary, so that's why I regard her as "rapist"... Unless Matt was genuinely attracted to Mary and just had a lot Catholic guilt over that made him reason on the "Oh! What's happening to me?!"
| The Overlord wrote: |
One easy explanation, is his parents were perfectionists and would only show him love if he was the "best" at everything. So when Murdock was the better the student , they would scorn him for coming in second, rather then turning in his own good performance. |
Hey I like this "parents are Hell" theory! Bad parenting is the source of a lot of evil
| The Overlord wrote: |
in Cranston's mind Matt used those super senses to cheat. |
Well, in a way, Matt has been cheating for a long time: a double life, taking advantage of his extra senses in court, etc... However, since he does all that for a good purpose, we have never perceived it as wrong... but, technically, we can say he cheats in a lot of occasions 
(i don't regard his heartbeat-sensing lie-detector as cheating, tho'... the cheater there is the one who's saying the lie )
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know if Mary was ever supposed to be a feminist herself. I think it was more that her character was sort of the personification of a certain type of feminist commentary. She's the mother/whore character all in one. She's the super over sexed bad girl and the helpless, innocent good girl. In theory that's supposed to be every man's fantasy.
As for the rape thing. Matt being in a relationship at the time has NOTHING to do with it. Aside from that, rape is one of those things where I think one should shy away from saying "kind of like rape". It's either rape or it isn't. It's mildly offensive to compare anything that isn't rape to rape.
Back to Typhoid: she's an awesome character. Bendis reduced her to crazy, babbling idiot because he obviously just didn't get it. At least her costume got a kick ass make over.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: | | She's the mother/whore character all in one. She's the super over sexed bad girl and the helpless, innocent good girl. In theory that's supposed to be every man's fantasy. |
That must be why I could never "get" her as a reader.
I must say that I said that I didn't feel she was a feminist because she wasn't like any feminist I'm acquainted with. I mean, the prevalent ideas in them is "cooperating"and "community" and Mary is kind of destructive and anarchic... Maybe she's caricature of the "feminist men fear"? I don't see Maria, Mary's sweet alter ego, as a feminist, either... too passive
Incidentally, she reminds me a bit of an old DC character: Rose & Thorn.
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gloria wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | Mary has the power to influence people, but I don't think she has power of direct mind control (except for those two really stupid thugs, where she was able to use her powers to put them asleep) so I don't think she is rapist. |
Personally, I think there's something of a rape in her alluring of Matt (while Matt is in a relationship with Karen), but then it could be just a personal perception of it. Matt seems perfectly content with Karen, but there's something that goes out of control when he's with Mary... Matt wasn't in full control of himself when with Mary, so that's why I regard her as "rapist"... Unless Matt was genuinely attracted to Mary and just had a lot Catholic guilt over that made him reason on the "Oh! What's happening to me?!" |
Again I think you are overestimating Mary's powers. She can only directly control really stupid people and Matt doesn't apply.
Mary can influence people who be attracted her to, to become more attracted to her and that is they fall under her spell. Mary merely enhances feelings that already exist, let's face it, most straight men (and lesbians) would be attracted her on some level and Matt is no different. Mary played head games, but she never raped anyone, she doesn't have the power of direct control over most the population. Heck I doubt she would be able to make a gay guy fall in love with her.
Purple Man is clearly rapist while Mary is not. Purple Man has the power to directly control almost anyone and can make people who hate him do things things against their will. Jessica Jones hated Killgrave, but the nature of his powers means she had to do what he said, no matter how much he hated it.
On the surface they seem similar, but on deeper level they are nothing alike. Mary at least some decent qualities, there is a decent personality beneath the madness. Purple Man, there is nothing, before he went insane, he was an evil psychopath. Purple Man is a million times more vile than Mary. That's why I think Mary would hate Purple man, particularly if Killgrave tried to her his slave. That's why think a fight between them could be interesting, like DD having to protect Killgrave's mind controlled slaves from Mary could be interesting.
| Gloria wrote: |
| The Overlord wrote: |
One easy explanation, is his parents were perfectionists and would only show him love if he was the "best" at everything. So when Murdock was the better the student , they would scorn him for coming in second, rather then turning in his own good performance. |
Hey I like this "parents are Hell" theory! Bad parenting is the source of a lot of evil |
I said its an easy answer not a bad one. Having ultra competitive parents could explain on some level the grudge Larry developed for Matt, the seeds of a growing hatred. Larry's hatred of Matt is central to his character so it needs to be fleshed out.
Also if yo want to make Larry more vile, they could reveal that he murdered his own parents. That be an anti thesis to Matt, Matt become DD to avenge his father, Larry murdered his own parents in his own quest for revenge.
| Gloria wrote: |
| The Overlord wrote: |
in Cranston's mind Matt used those super senses to cheat. |
Well, in a way, Matt has been cheating for a long time: a double life, taking advantage of his extra senses in court, etc... However, since he does all that for a good purpose, we have never perceived it as wrong... but, technically, we can say he cheats in a lot of occasions
(i don't regard his heartbeat-sensing lie-detector as cheating, tho'... the cheater there is the one who's saying the lie ) |
I meant cheating in an academic sense. If Larry discovered the nature of Matt's super senses, he could have credited Matt's superior skills as student on senses rather his own wits and hard work, which would have made Larry hate Matt even more.
Anyway, is there any villains you like to see Brubaker take on? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
