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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: |
This why I don't like her, she is presented as anti hero, but there certain rules anti heroes have to follow (like not killing innocent people). Mary, at least, is too insane to tell the difference from right and wrong, while Elektra is perfectly sane. |
Isn't the very point of an anti-hero that they don't follow rules? There's nothing that says anti-heros can't kill innocent people.
That said, if one just looks at the Elektra Saga it is true that it's not entirely clear that Elektra even does that much evil stuff. She seems to simply knock off bad guys for bad guys.
As for how she went bad: she was infected with evil. Didn't anyone read Fall From Grace? Comon! |
There is an unwritten code in regards to being an anti hero, which is why Venom didn't work as an anti hero. It contradicted his previous evil actions, like offing cops. An anti hero cannot do whatever he please, that would make him a villain. Bullseye does whatever he pleases, no matter how depraved (like offing nuns). There are guidelines to being an anti hero, otherwise you could claim anyone could be an anti hero, which would be silly.
Most anti heroes do things that would be considered immoral, but they have certain lines they won't cross and they counteract these actions with other good deeds. Punisher kills people, but he only targets criminals, never innocent people and goes out of the way to protect innocent people. Catwoman steals, but she also protects Gotham from the more violent criminals. So while Punisher and Catwoman do immoral things, they don't go out of their way to kill innocent people and they have goals that go beyond their selfish desires, even if they pander to these desires.
Elektra kills people for money, there is nothing noble in that. The only reason she spared Foggy was because she was Matt's friend, would she have spared him if he were stranger? Elektra doing things like killing that old Nazi is fine, anti heroes can kill evil people for money, like Hit Man. But can we say for sure she never killed an innocent person for money?
Anyway this is kinda off topic, but I disagree that there is no rules in regards to being an anti hero. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | Eh, that seems like a bit of a cop out, it seems kinda lame IMO. The Hand corrupted her, so wouldn't they have instilled a sense of cult like loyalty as well? I mean she ditched them after a while, right. Its not like she has Stockholm syndrome or something, she isn't Patty Hurst. I doubt the Hand took away her sense of right and wrong, she still seems rational. Saying the hand "corrupted" her seems like an excuse that allows her to avoid moral responsibility. |
I'm not saying that Elektra didn't have any culpability in her actions. She willingly made the choices to become what she did. But, Miller makes it clear that the Hand was a manipulative group. They nurtured her anger and hatred for, well, basically society (as she clearly said she had no part in Matt's world when she left him). The Hand made her into a killer. And, no Overlord, it wasn't Stockholm syndrome--as you said, she actally left them and went freelance. She just obviously got some thrill killing people.
By the way, I agree with you on Marvel's inability to decide what to do with, well as it turns out, Skullektra. Hero, anti-hero, coldblooded assassin, dancer? Whatever, Marvel.
rgj |
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