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Post-Bendis 2000s Comics?

 
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brentdevil
Flying Blind


Joined: 01 May 2021
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:28 am    Post subject: Post-Bendis 2000s Comics? Reply with quote

What does everyone think of the quality of the title after Bendis left, before the Mark Waid run, in the late 2000s? (Brubaker & Diggle essentially)

For myself, I'm not really a Brubaker fan so I didn't quite care for what he did. I didn't really like the artist and that is was even more "noir"/crime stories after Bendis had been on for 5 years, when it felt like we were absolutely inundated with that stuff in comics from writers of a certain era. I didn't quite care for things he did like how he dispatched Milla, Dakota North every issue, and taking the Black Tarantula from DeFalco's Spider-Man comics and turning him into just another street gangbanger. But, I liked some stuff I guess, like how he resolved the unmasking (which Bendis really should've done himself and was done about as well as anyone could) and the sad one-off issues.

But that was all better than the late-shipping nonsense Diggle did, which was so short and unmemorable it's hardly worth critiquing. I will say he was pretty much stuck due to the cliffhanger Brubaker saddled him with (so glad they stopped that "tradition" of handing the title off to one of their buddies that way so that you have to keep buying), and there wasn't much he could do except use his meager 12 issues to resolve The Hand status quo. It was kind of funny how they reverted the entire book back to even before Bendis once Waid came on, and nobody cared how jarring a shift it was just to get away from the incessant grimdark tone. The series was truly a product of 2000s comics at the time, for good or ill.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're discussing the last arc of Brubaker's run right now in the Daredevil Book Club. I've always thought his run was stronger than Bendis's run, which I find to be an interest but flawed run. My initial memory was that the first half was very strong (through the Mr. Fear arc) then it dips in quality, and picks up by the end. Re-reading it, the dip is a bit later in the middle of Cruel and Unusual, but I'm not sure it really recovers. I think the character work remained strong but not the actual plots.

I thought Diggle's work was bad but at least contributed some interesting dynamics at first. However, it falls apart and is pretty terrible by the end. I'm curious if that changes.
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Daredevil24
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Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Bendis' run when I read it as a whole. I just hated Milla so I was glad Brubaker did away with her. I liked Brubaker's run all the way up till 111 and then all the angst over Matt banging Dakota just got ridiculous and Ed seemed to lose interest in the book. I really was pushing for Matt and Dakota and I still to this day felt they had a ton of potential. I loved Devil in Cell Block D and Devil takes a ride. Cruel and Unsual was awesome too.
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a Bendis fan. I'm just not. He's got a flair for dialogue, and Alex Maleev can draw some fantastic noir scenes, but they both have too many bad habits for me to enjoy their run.

I'm a huge Ed Brubaker fan, but I will admit his Daredevil run is not his best. Still, "Devil In Cell Block D" and "Devil Takes a Ride" are fantastic. A couple of weeks ago the Book Club reviewed Brubaker and David Aja's first issue of the "Return of the King" arc, and that is a masterpiece. Brubaker understands how to pace a comic, and how to use the medium's strength to maximize the impact on the reader. Still, Matt was taken in a direction I didn't ultimately enjoy.

I have horrible memories of Andy Diggle's run. Matt sunk so low, it became miserable. Shadowland is a disaster. Daredevil #512, Diggle's last issue, stands among the worst issues in the character's history. It is so destructive to everything for which Daredevil stands.

That's why I was so appreciative for Mark Waid coming in and changing course. It was such a breath of fresh air.
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brentdevil
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Joined: 01 May 2021
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I should clarify I'm not really the biggest Bendis fan myself- I just didn't want to ask about the 2000s as a whole since I knew Bendis would dominate any discussion, and Brubaker/Diggle were sandwiched between the runs that get more talk. I did like his run more than Brubaker's though. Interesting a couple people think it dipped around the same time, after issue 110. I haven't read them in awhile but I did like the first couple arcs up to #100 or so well enough. Then he did a succession of overlong stories with these goofy titles ("Without Fear!" "The Devil, You Say!") and I checked out mentally. Ideally, I think Bendis should've stayed on one more arc to resolve the secret ID thing himself, and Brubaker should've a) done his own thing instead of carrying the same tone over even down to the art style b) not been so anal about lining up arcs to be certain number of issues to fit neatly into when an anniversary issue was down the pike. More one-offs would've been good, as that's where I felt he excelled (off the top of my head I think they were 88, 94, 106 and 116, the Foggy/Milla/Urich/Kingpin solo issues).

I will say that of the little trio of interchangeable bald American noir writers of the early 2000s, I like both Bendis and Brubaker far better than Greg Rucka- can't stand that guy's writing, never have. His Elektra and Batman comics were bad in an unpleasant or hostile way, to me.
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DesignDevil
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, Daredevil has never come close to the quality of Bendis and Brubaker's runs since they left. Their runs at least were consistent in quality, and to me, that quality was aces. Brubaker's may have been depressing and took Matt to very dark place we may not have wanted him to go, but the storytelling was sharp and intelligent, and the characters were on point. Every writer since Brubaker has started strong and then at some point gone completely off the rails into mind-numbingly dumb.
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brentdevil
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Joined: 01 May 2021
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DesignDevil wrote:
To me, Daredevil has never come close to the quality of Bendis and Brubaker's runs since they left. Their runs at least were consistent in quality, and to me, that quality was aces. Brubaker's may have been depressing and took Matt to very dark place we may not have wanted him to go, but the storytelling was sharp and intelligent, and the characters were on point. Every writer since Brubaker has started strong and then at some point gone completely off the rails into mind-numbingly dumb.


I actually kind of agree, even though I ragged on Brubaker a bit. It hasn't "felt" like Daredevil since #500, in that the last ten years have not felt right at Marvel. I know everyone adores the Waid run but it's a bit twee and precious, even though I really like the stuff about Matt only able to deal with the darkness by putting on a good face and his best foot forward, to keep his sanity. I haven't even paid attention to what Zdarsky has done, and the Soule stuff was not my thing at all.
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