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DAREDEVIL #25 Preview, Reviews and Discussion
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #25?
5
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
4
66%
 66%  [ 4 ]
3
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
2
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6

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Kuljit Mithra
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:45 pm    Post subject: DAREDEVIL #25 Preview, Reviews and Discussion Reply with quote

DD#24 just came out, but the next issue, DAREDEVIL #25 by Zdarsky, Checchetto, Hawthorne, Menyz, Cowles, comes out December 2nd!

Here's the cover and preview:



http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V6-025

Please use this thread for all discussion when the issue ships!
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Daredevil24
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a lot of my few DD fans here aren't a big fan of the DD/Elektra pairing but we can't deny it's an iconic pairing. If Chip can push their relationship past the whole moth to the flame trope and develop it into something that can actually work I'll give it a shot. I don't know how I feel about Elektra becoming Daredevil. I would've enjoyed seeing her protect the Kitchen as plain Elektra. Anyways, it's good having her back as a supporting character in the DD universe rather than some side piece to Frank Castle. I am a sucker anything Chaste vs Hand so I'm s bit biased lol.
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DesignDevil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue was damn good. The art was absolutely amazing, as is expected from Checcheto. Then I remembered the last 4 issues of stupidity that brought us here, and that Mike is still running around as Matt outside, and everyone is an idiot except maybe Elektra.

I know this is more to do with last issue, but can Kirsten seriously not tell Mike isn't Matt? Is she that stupid? I've never liked Kirsten, but here I am defending her. Zdarsky gave an interview where he talks about Mike is gonna enjoy being Matt. Just so we're all clear, if he sleeps with anyone while pretending to be Matt, that's rape. Full stop.

The keeping the mask on is still absurd.

Also something that occurred to me, in this new stupid fake reality, is Matt's middle name still Michael? Did Jack and Maggie seriously name both their twin sons Mike in this new stupid fake realty? Most everyone else is now an idiot, why not retroactively make them idiots too.

A whole lot of interesting subplots and characters have kinda vanished from the book. Like, remember the brother of the guy Matt killed who knows Matt is DD? But hey, we've got Knull next month.

Seriously, there is no reality where Matt doesn't get immediately dog-piled and that mask gets ripped off his head. And that's probably by the damn prison guards, to say nothing of the actual inmates. And it actually crossed my mind that this might be what Tony made for him, a high tech mask that won't come off if he doesn't want it to. Even if that is somehow the case, there is no reality where Matt doesn't get immediately dog-piled and his skull ripped apart as they try to get that mask off his head. And that's by the damn prison guards, to say nothing of the actual inmates.

The core idea here, Matt back in prison and Elektra taking over with a big plot involving the Hand sounds great, but geeez.

I'm gonna go re-read "The Devil in Cell Block D".
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Daredevil24
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devil in Cell block D was an amazing story. It felt very real. I don't expect this to even come close to that. Matt was actually forced to fight in Cell Block D and reveal himself.
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DesignDevil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, good lord, can Zdarsky dial back the religion? I generally like that aspect of Matt, but here lately it's just over the top. He's quoting damn bible verses to his clients now? Daredevil and Nightcrawler have the same problem. We get it, writers, they're catholic. They're also a LOT more than just catholic.
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thennings
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Stick was dead?
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macjr33
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this issue is a complete 180 from last week for me. Absolutely fantastic. First, the art was stellar especially from the lackluster art from last week. Chechetto's Elektra is easily my favorite version of her, both in costume and in civilian clothes.I also love how Zdarskyy is writing her.

While I didn't love the way we got here, I can call this an ends justifies the means short of situation at least for now.

Five stars for me.

Daredevil24 wrote:
I know a lot of my few DD fans here aren't a big fan of the DD/Elektra pairing but we can't deny it's an iconic pairing. If Chip can push their relationship past the whole moth to the flame trope and develop it into something that can actually work I'll give it a shot. I don't know how I feel about Elektra becoming Daredevil. I would've enjoyed seeing her protect the Kitchen as plain Elektra. Anyways, it's good having her back as a supporting character in the DD universe rather than some side piece to Frank Castle. I am a sucker anything Chaste vs Hand so I'm s bit biased lol.


I am one of those fans that isn't particularly fond of the pairing; however, I really like what Zdarsky is setting up here. My issue with the pairing is what I have said even when discussing the past issue in that Elektra doesn't understand why things like protecting Hell's Kitchen are important to Matt and often we get a variation on the same trope. Basically the Talia al Ghul to Matt's Batman (I've been thinking of that comparison because my initial fear on the reveal was that Elektra was pregnant and it would be Matt's version of the Batman/Talia/Damian dynamic). While it's clear that Elektra needs Matt for this plan to defeat the Hand, if while she is Daredevil does her character start to change and feel a connection to the people of Hell's Kitchen and truly understand Matt (which we got some hints of) then I am genuinely excited to see where things can go.

RGdesigner wrote:
I know this is more to do with last issue, but can Kirsten seriously not tell Mike isn't Matt? Is she that stupid? I've never liked Kirsten, but here I am defending her. Zdarsky gave an interview where he talks about Mike is gonna enjoy being Matt. Just so we're all clear, if he sleeps with anyone while pretending to be Matt, that's rape. Full stop.


I think Kirsten will figure it out soon (I'm a big fan of Kirsten) or I think Foggy will say something if things go too far; however, this is the one thing that I would like resolved sooner than later. Not a fan and I agree if Zdarsky goes the route your suggesting it could ruin the entire run for me. I want to believe there will be a payoff for all the Mike Murdock stuff so curious how it plays out.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've typed before about how Elektra is my favourite of Daredevil's love interests. I love the push and pull of their relationship, and the passion between them is always palpable. I love how tough she is, and how much of a threat she is. Chip Zdarsky, however, seems to have an unusually strong handle on how Elektra feels about Matt. Even Frank Miller seemed to focus only on what Elektra meant to Matt -- not so much the other way around. It's really neat to have an issue after all of these decades showing how much Elektra cares about how Matt thinks about her.

So I thought it was great when she assumed the Daredevil identity. I took her purchase of Hell's Kitchen as an act of love for Matt, because it showed how deeply she understands what matters to him. In the same way I see her assumption of the Daredevil role as a similar act of love. I like how she views Matt as the light, and how she's struggling to be that now. This could end up being a very powerful story of redemption.

Previously, Greg Rucka wrote a very cool story of Elektra struggling to redeem herself. Unfortunately that Elektra series got reset and she returned to being an assassin. If we could get a redemption arc for Elektra that actually sticks, I think I'd enjoy it.

I gave this issue a four. I couldn't go higher because I'm a little unclear about how far back the scenes with Stick go. I assumed they took place before she was cast out of the Chaste and became a bounty hunter. However, if that's the case, why does she so urgently care about this Hand plot?

Also, this issue's last line is upsetting. I don't want to experience this wonderful redemption of Elektra's character only to have her killed. And I don't want to have gone through Matt's recuperation from his injury just for him to end up dead. I don't like the direction that last line is pointing. Why do we need that?

Nevertheless, I really enjoyed this issue.
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macjr33
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
I've typed before about how Elektra is my favourite of Daredevil's love interests. I love the push and pull of their relationship, and the passion between them is always palpable. I love how tough she is, and how much of a threat she is. Chip Zdarsky, however, seems to have an unusually strong handle on how Elektra feels about Matt. Even Frank Miller seemed to focus only on what Elektra meant to Matt -- not so much the other way around. It's really neat to have an issue after all of these decades showing how much Elektra cares about how Matt thinks about her.

So I thought it was great when she assumed the Daredevil identity. I took her purchase of Hell's Kitchen as an act of love for Matt, because it showed how deeply she understands what matters to him. In the same way I see her assumption of the Daredevil role as a similar act of love. I like how she views Matt as the light, and how she's struggling to be that now. This could end up being a very powerful story of redemption.

Previously, Greg Rucka wrote a very cool story of Elektra struggling to redeem herself. Unfortunately that Elektra series got reset and she returned to being an assassin. If we could get a redemption arc for Elektra that actually sticks, I think I'd enjoy it.

I gave this issue a four. I couldn't go higher because I'm a little unclear about how far back the scenes with Stick go. I assumed they took place before she was cast out of the Chaste and became a bounty hunter. However, if that's the case, why does she so urgently care about this Hand plot?

Also, this issue's last line is upsetting. I don't want to experience this wonderful redemption of Elektra's character only to have her killed. And I don't want to have gone through Matt's recuperation from his injury just for him to end up dead. I don't like the direction that last line is pointing. Why do we need that?

Nevertheless, I really enjoyed this issue.


While I didn't see Elektra's act of buying Hell's Kitchen as being as altruistic or out of love as you do (she needs Matt for her plan to defeat the Hand), I agree that this could be setting up for a powerful redemption arc for her which I think would be awesome (I'm a sucker for a good redemption story). I believe that being Daredevil and helping the people of Hell's Kitchen will help her rediscover her empathy. This will in turn help he understand Matt even more. We already saw hints of it in this issue with her helping the homeless woman. There was no reason she had to do it. Though I did find it funny that she called the women's "lawyer" a fool even though she just helped her. If we get this kind of story and it sticks, then I am more open to them as a pairing.

I would also suggest that while Miller did focus more on what Elektra meant to Matt, let's not forget she returned to NYC because Matt was in danger and, in #181, she didn't kill Foggy out of love for Matt.

Lastly, I was reading some thoughts about the Queen and King thing and some theories were that maybe that how we will get rid of Mike Murdock which I would be all for!
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macjr33 wrote:
Lastly, I was reading some thoughts about the Queen and King thing and some theories were that maybe that how we will get rid of Mike Murdock which I would be all for!

That would be wonderful!
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this stage, I was not expecting an Elektra-focused issue. There's some stuff of Matt in jail, but he's definitely not the focus. I was curious how they would handle a jail sentence. I thought for sure he would have to unmask by that point. In some ways, treating him as a masked superhero even under those circumstances feels like it's closer to returning to a silver age status quo than Bendis's hyper-realism about superheroes.

Anyway, the focus is Elektra. There's a lot of mystic stuff that's really captivating, but this is clearly just the start. I feel like the counter for the Hand should be the Chaste (and I thought Soule used the Fist for something else), but that's a minor quibble.

Four and a Half Stars.
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Rand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
Also something that occurred to me, in this new stupid fake reality, is Matt's middle name still Michael? Did Jack and Maggie seriously name both their twin sons Mike?


That is one hilarious thought that had never occurred to me before, and I congratulate you on asking the question, RG.

thennings wrote:
I thought Stick was dead?


That's what I thought, too... until I remembered that Stick's resurrection was the climax of 2015's "All-New, All-Different Point One" one-shot: the prologue to the 2015 "Contest of Champions"-- which I'm guessing most folks here never read. (I didn't!)

That same one-shot also included the official prologue to Soule's 2016 run, which is the one part of that one-shot I did read.

Dimetre wrote:
I'm a little unclear about how far back the scenes with Stick go. I assumed they took place before [Elektra] was cast out of the Chaste and became a bounty hunter. However, if that's the case, why does she so urgently care about this Hand plot?


I was unclear on that, too... until I finally realized the importance of Elektra's last-page comment "I... I remember... Matt..."

We're supposed to understand that these scenes happened somewhat recently, in that we're supposed to understand that this is the moment (and the process by which) Elektra remembers that Matt is Daredevil-- by virtue of this (near-)resurrection.
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Rand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that I'm a little weirded out by the rush to get Elektra into this new costume just in time for "King in Black".

We get two issues in two weeks... and then we need to wait two months for the next issue? And that issue's going to be a "King in Black" tie-in unrelated to this new "Red Fist" arc? And the issue after that is going to be another such issue? Sad
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Rand
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS: I'm starting to have déjà vu...

Is it possible that Zdarsky is combining two of the lowest points in "DD" history?

1) Arguably the worst idea from Stan Lee's original 1960s run:

-- "Let's give Matt a fake twin brother!"

plus

2) Arguably the (twin) worst ideas from Chichester's 1990s run:

-- "Let's bring Elektra back! And then let's have Matt fake his own death!"

could equal

3) The following plot, which I would love to believe is not Zdarsky's intention:

"Hey, everybody! Remember those two early '90s "Daredevil" issues that tied into "Infinity War", resulting in a "Daredevil Doppelganger" running around for a while? Remember how the writers eventually killed off that doppelganger, and it turned into a clone corpse, which Matt used to fake his own death? Remember how that was the most convoluted idea of all time?

"Well, what if I could one-up that bad boy? What if -- thirty years later -- I do a two-issue "King in Black" tie-in that features a similar invasion... only this time, we don't need a "Daredevil Doppelganger"-- we already have a "Matt doppelganger" running around! You remember him, right? Matt's fake twin brother, Mike, whom I made real for some reason? I'll just paint myself into a tight corner, and then I'll kill Mike off so that Matt can once again use a "clone corpse" to fake his death and -- sure -- (pseudo-)fulfill Stick's new, out-of-nowhere prophecy. It would -- improbably -- be even more convoluted than the original!"
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rand wrote:

I was unclear on that, too... until I finally realized the importance of Elektra's last-page comment "I... I remember... Matt..."

We're supposed to understand that these scenes happened somewhat recently, in that we're supposed to understand that this is the moment (and the process by which) Elektra remembers that Matt is Daredevil-- by virtue of this (near-)resurrection.


It probably was intended to be recent. That being said, there's reason to believe, based on Bendis's Defenders, that she already knew his identity there. And it was either earlier in Zdarsky's run or somewhere late in Soule's run where Matt questions whether she actually does know. I'd be willing to bet that those scenes took place while Matt was wearing his black costume absent any evidence to the contrary.
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