Daredevil Message Board

[Pete]

It looks like despite Marvel's ridiculious decision to carry on the DD numbering on a book with no DD in it, and the likelyhood that after Diggles' Last Stand with Reborn, that we'll have a new DD book starting at #1. So whatever some guy at Marvel might think, for me at least, Daredevil Volume 2 is over.

And I have to say, its been a very hit and miss affair.

I thought it got off to a great start with Guardian Devil. I'm not a great Kevin Smith fan by any means. I've never seen any of his films or read any of the other books (apart from Target #1, which was the worst comic book I have ever read. Seriously, its that bad). And although he gets a lot of flak on here for killing off Karen, having Mysterio as the bad guy, being overweight etc, etc, I thoroughly enjoyed these first eight issues. I thought the handling of Karens demise was well thought out and treated respectfully. It was shocking, but handled with a certain grace, given the gravitas such an event in this book deserves. I liked the cameos with Mephisto and the Catholic element to Matts character brought to the fore. I never want to see Smith anywhere near this book again after the debacle of Target, but for these issues I thank both him and Quesada for a well handled arc and a great start to the relaunch.

Parts Of A Hole by Mack was not too bad. However, the character of Echo, although beautifully written at times, just didn't quite sit right for me. It was almost like DD had one female antagonist / love interest too far. Marvel went and completely messed up the twist ending also, in having the events with the Kingpin revealed in the forgettable DD/Spidey mini before the final issue here.

Just a quick word on the distribution problems around this period. Although personal problems were behind a lot of the late shipping here, I can't help but feel that the huge gap between issues slowed down the pace and perception of the stories being told in the readers eyes and it wasn't just them, but the stories themselves, that suffered.. I got used to waiting sixty days in the old bi-monthly days of Vol. 1, and that was bad enough trying to pick up a plot thread after two months. But the wait between issues around this Smith/Mack period, staring #5 I think, was at times ridiculious.

I've got no recollection of Wake Up, a short 4 issue arc by Bendis, Mack, other than DD was hardly in it and Ben Urich was. Lots. I quite liked the fact that Leap Frog was involved, and it wasn't a bad tale. Just not very memorable.

Bob Gale then produced the rather worthless Playing To The Camera, memorable only for the rather striking Mack covers, the worst depiction of the Jester, ever, and a rather nice little love interest for Matt in the shape of Kate, who was never seen of again, I believe. The whole thing was rushed out by Marvel on a bi-weekly schedule, as if in embarresment to get it over with as quickly as possible, and not to make up for the previous lateness of the book. After six pretty useless issues we found out the brains behind it all was The Ringm...(yawn).

Then, finally, with #26, the cornerstone and flagship of Volume 2. I'm not going to go on about how great Bendis /Maleev were/are, about how they made this book their own, or about how well written, thought provoking and sometimes shocking the issues were. Needless to say, without them and their wonderfully interconnected, interwoven, stupendous run of issues, Volume 2 would be pretty much a waste of time. They produced the last decent issue of this book, in my eyes.

It was however only half way through the run that Alex managed to produce a decent cover LOL. There are only so many poses of DD shadowboxing that I can take, and the one where he's climing up a water tower, or something, seen from about half a mile away, was downright bizarre. But really, both Bendis and Maleev are untouchable, and it is only with hindsight that their remarkable run will become even more appreciated than it is now.

Brubaker came with a lot of hype and produced nothing but dysmal issues and a general air of depression, and Diggle is a bad writer on whose watch the whole thing came crashing down around Marvels ears.

So RIP Volume 2. Without Bendis /Maleev I'd have given up a lot earlier than I did. Running out of steam after a freah start in 1998 doesn't bode well for the character or his perception in the eyes of Marvel. After the fresh impetus and then settling down to the longstanding run by Bendis, this book was allowed to die an undignified death. Of course, Marvel will say its not really over, Black Panther carries the fight on, DD will go on a long trek and find himself and we'll be back with the old stuff again shortly, with maybe a new #1 but I for one will take some convincing there is anyone at the company with the balls, originality or even moderate amount of talent to do something original and uplifting with this character ever again.

It seems to me that almost everyone that has followed Miller has tried to take elements of what he achieved and play around with that. Unfortunately, compared to him, they're all crap.. What they fail to notice is someone like Nocenti who followed on directly from Born Again and completely ignored it, just did her own thing.

Whoever takes over in the new year after the last few depressing years needs to do the same and ignore what has gone before.

[DesignDevil]

Agreed on almost all points except Brubaker.
"Devil in Cell Block D" was one of the the best DD stories of all time. The second arc in Europe was solid and ended with the only hi-point in Matt's life during Brubakers run. I realize they felt they needed to get rid of Milla but the Fear arc was just way too drawn out and depressing. "Cruel and Unusual", "Lady Bullseye", and "Return" were all solid and that ending had infinite potential that Marvel and Diggle utterly failed to capitalize on.

As far as going forward and ignoring vol 2. There is no way they can do that and tell any kind of natural or believable story.
The police are out to get Murdock.
The public has turned against him.
Everyone still knows he's Daredevil.
It would be wrong on almost every level to ignore the relationship issues from the last few years with Foggy, Dakota, Milla, Ben, etc

Unless he leaves the country and changes his name and outfit, there's no way to tell a good story going forward without some resolution. Reborn seems to be about Matt himself, rediscovering his purpose far from Hell's Kitchen. New Mexico I believe. It likely won't deal with any of these issues listed.

If they go forward ignoring all this, its bad storytelling.
If they do continue to deal with these story elements it only emphasizes how utterly retarded it is to start a new DD series and have Black Panther TMWF #513.

[james castle]

I haven't read Shadowland yet (and I'm quite frankly dreading it) but here are my brief reviews for what appears to be volume 2:

Guardian Devil Crap
Parts of a Hole Crap
Wake Up Good
Playing to the Camera Weird Throw Back
Underboss Great
Out Great
Lowlife Great
Hardcore Great
Echo - Vision Quest Echo Mini-series
King of Hell's Kitchen Great
The Widow Good
The Golden Age Good
Decalogue Good
The Murdock Papers Crap
The Devil, Inside and Out, Vol. 1 Great
The Devil, Inside and Out, Vol. 2 Good
Hell to Pay, Vol. 1 Crap
Hell to Pay, Vol. 2 Crap
Cruel and Unusual Crap
Lady Bullseye Crap
Return of the King Crap
The Devil's Hand Crap

Not a good ratio of Crap to Good/Great really.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[baker]

Yep, I also got to agree with RGdesigner in saying that "The Devil in Cell Block D" was one of the greatest Daredevil stories of all time. Although the Bendis run is unbelievably good, Brubaker's first six issues trumped it all. IMO at least...

But I also really liked Brubaker's run overall, so my opinion could be tainted.

[rgj]

I've been away from Daredevil and comics for a while now. I lost interest somewhere around Return of the King. All the issues of DD are there, I just haven't read the huge stacks of comics (including other titles). My wife wonders why I buy them. But, I vow to catch up early this year. Having said that, I must say that, in retrospect, the last decade for DD wasn't that great. I agree with much of what Pete and jc have said. But, I'm going to note here that the much lauded Bendis run has not stood the test of time. Sure, the first few arcs were great--what with all the talking, but it soon degenerated into Dan "the bomb" flubs and Murdock Papers stupidity. Even the minis like DD:Father and the god awful Battlin Jack (seriously, how do you write this story without Maggie ALREADY being a nun when she gets preggers!?).
Anyway, I'm eager to get back into DD, have alot to catch up on, but I just hope that this coming decade is better to my favorite hero.
_________________
rgj

[Pete]

[Dimetre]

Since we're now talking about minis, I'll agree that the overwhelming majority of them weren't any good. The only ones I enjoyed were Daredevil vs. Punisher: Means and Ends, and Redemption, although in regards to the latter I have issues with Matt's inaction at the end. I'd still recommend both of them though.