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SHADOWLAND #4 Preview and Discussion *SPOILERS*

 
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Kuljit Mithra
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: SHADOWLAND #4 Preview and Discussion *SPOILERS* Reply with quote

Please use this thread for discussion on the issue that ships next week!

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Shadowland-4
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baker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So really, I could have skipped issues 3 and 4, and issue 5 would have fallen right in line. I mean, besides the addition of Elektra and Izo in the fray, it's still one big cliffhanger slugfest with heroes vs. DD and the Hand.

It astounds me that End of Days wasn't used in the place of Shadowland. If they're killing off Daredevil, they might as well done it with the best team possible [bendis/mack/janson/sienkiewicz/maleev].

My predictions for Shadowland 5: Elektra kills Bullseye, Wolverine kills Typhoid Mary, Izo kills White Tiger, Lady Bullseye kills the Kingpin, Punisher kills Spider-man, Dakota kills Foggy, Daredevil kills himself.
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The Mast
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, Baker.

Especially now that Bendis has said it's going to be canon.
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baker wrote:
So really, I could have skipped issues 3 and 4, and issue 5 would have fallen right in line. I mean, besides the addition of Elektra and Izo in the fray, it's still one big cliffhanger slugfest with heroes vs. DD and the Hand.

It astounds me that End of Days wasn't used in the place of Shadowland. If they're killing off Daredevil, they might as well done it with the best team possible [bendis/mack/janson/sienkiewicz/maleev].

My predictions for Shadowland 5: Elektra kills Bullseye, Wolverine kills Typhoid Mary, Izo kills White Tiger, Lady Bullseye kills the Kingpin, Punisher kills Spider-man, Dakota kills Foggy, Daredevil kills himself.

Then Deadpool blows up Shadowland. It's Marvel, so Deadpool has to show up. I mean, Wolverine did. I don't know why, but he did.
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DDTattoo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least there's only one more issue left.
Good lord, how inconsistent was the art? Wolverine stabs Matt vertically, then in the next panel, the wounds are horizontal? The Punisher looks to much like Dolph Lundgren. Elektra could have passed for 2 different women.
At least Wolverine wasn't on the cover.
And, there's only one more issue left.
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AP
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mast wrote:
I agree with you, Baker.

Especially now that Bendis has said it's going to be canon.


Ok, I'm going off topic.......NOW:


See, I'm just not ok with the idea of End Of Days being canon. It's a cool idea, but when it comes out how is it going to affect writers writing the title in current time frame? They're chained to whatever it is Bendis did so you're possibly setting yourself up for lackluster writing. And let's face it, Marvel will just change anything in it that doesn't suit them later on in the same convulted way they do everything else. If it's out of continuity, they won't get to mess with it and the story won't be tarnished.

And what if it's a stinker? I'm sure the art will be great but Bendis has written his fair share of stinkers, especially lately. I really feel his writing on DD went downhill towards the end of his run, The Murdock Papers especially with his continuity memory lapses and less than logical plot. So I'm not particularly thrilled to see him play with Hornhead again. If he wants to do a What If sort of thing, fine. But keep it out of mainstream continuity.

Ok, back on topic..... I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. Sub par art with less than inspired layout and camera direction and a poor sense of anatomy. The writing, not even worth commenting on.

I like baker's predictions and Dimetre's inclusion of Deadpool. Both gave me a good chuckle. I'd personally like to find out that it was Mike Murdock pulling the strings the whole time. Laughing
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baker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock!!! Now you're on to something.... The "demon/beast" that Matt is possessed by is actually the other half of his split personality, Mike Murdock. It's been swelling in his head like a psychological tumor all these years.

And about End of Days, IMO, Daredevil is about used up as a character. If this past year of DD becomes a writing trend for the title, Daredevil needs to die. I mean, he's been the most tortured superhero on the face of the planet since Elektra died... And every sadistic writer to handle him since then follows suit. A death by the hand of Bendis is what Daredevil needs. I mean, who else could kill him properly? Frank Miller? That'd be way too risky. I think the only thing that could make End of Days better is if Brubaker was co-writing instead of Mack.
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Foggy's Pal
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Joined: 12 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya know, when the news came out about this event, I was excited. "Wow, a Daredevil centric event!" I suppose I thought that meant it would be a Matt Murdoch story as well. Foolish me. This story has no Daredevil/Matt; billing it as a DD story is false advertising. Can't wait for this to end. Hope Reborn restores him in the right way.
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AP
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baker wrote:
Mike Murdock!!! Now you're on to something.... The "demon/beast" that Matt is possessed by is actually the other half of his split personality, Mike Murdock. It's been swelling in his head like a psychological tumor all these years.

And about End of Days, IMO, Daredevil is about used up as a character. If this past year of DD becomes a writing trend for the title, Daredevil needs to die. I mean, he's been the most tortured superhero on the face of the planet since Elektra died... And every sadistic writer to handle him since then follows suit. A death by the hand of Bendis is what Daredevil needs. I mean, who else could kill him properly? Frank Miller? That'd be way too risky. I think the only thing that could make End of Days better is if Brubaker was co-writing instead of Mack.


Going off topic again....

I understand the feeling that he is used up as a character, but I think he's far from used up and he certainly doesn’t need to die. I mean, DC has milked Batman's somewhat insane quest for vengeance over the death of his parents for 70 years and he's just as tortured as DD. I bring up Batman because he and DD have a lot of similarities, but that's a whole different discussion. The point is, I don't think the character is the problem. The problem is poor writing and ideas and too much editorial meddling to create ridiculous crossover events. I think there are plenty of interesting stories that could be told. Some would have said DD was done after Born Again. Yes, there was a dry spell after Born Again, but what was the cause of that? Poor writing and poor use of the character. There were some good stories, but most of them either tried to copy Miller or take DD in directions where he just doesn't fit (*cough* Nocenti).

Look at what the past 10 years have brought us. Yes, the torture started to get old, but the vast majority of it was great character development and storytelling. DD is the perennial underdog and given the chance I think he will continue to surprise us make us regret that we ever doubted him. He just needs a good writer and a company that will believe in him and treat him with some respect.

Back on topic:

How bad was the Predator like heat vision that Diggle/Tan gave DD in this issue? Seriously?! WTF was that?!
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baker
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's pretty true. Daredevil was completely horrible after Born Again, until they made the switch to vol. 2 [except for the Joe Kelly run near the end]. I guess it just came as a shock when Daredevil started to get bad, after an (almost) 10 year awesome streak.

[/quote]
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The Mast
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the thing, this was meant to be the ultimate downward spiral of Murdock.

It isn't. Not in the way I hoped. I thought he'd lose grip on reality as lines were blurred naturally and if he'd died at the end, all the sadder.

However, it's just, "Oh, he's possessed." so we can't even blame him for what he's done, it doesn't change his character and now they're gonna waste his first death. They're wasting it on a storyline that has just becomes terribly handles.

From solicits revealing everything, to telling us there'll be a Reborn series already, to making Black Panther have the title without renumbering.

NONE of this has worked out, and it ALL could've. That's the **** thing. Daredevil could've died and been gone for a while, even for a short while, and I'd have been ok with it. Why kill someone who's doing well?

However, it feels like he's dying on a creative low note. That just is so much less than he deserves.
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kentuckydevil
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDTattoo wrote:
At least there's only one more issue left.
Good lord, how inconsistent was the art? Wolverine stabs Matt vertically, then in the next panel, the wounds are horizontal? The Punisher looks to much like Dolph Lundgren. Elektra could have passed for 2 different women.
At least Wolverine wasn't on the cover.
And, there's only one more issue left.



so true..

lets just put a review of a book that was supposed to be 'street level' in 'street leve'l terms..

its a **** way to treat a great idea that we have had the blessing to watch unfold over a 30yr span..

this sucks...its ****.
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Darkdevil
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Joined: 04 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm naturally too optimistic but even after this possession rubbish, I still try to find some small silver linings in this:

AP wrote:


Back on topic:

How bad was the Predator like heat vision that Diggle/Tan gave DD in this issue? Seriously?! WTF was that?!


I'd take that over the complete lack of any depiction of DD's radar sense over the last year or so. Y'know, the ability that allows our blind hero to fight, thrive, and survive in the first place? Wouldn't know it from any of Diggle's issues.


The only reason I can see for Logan's inclusion is Spidey's Avengers Assembling comment. Otherwise, if his involvement with the Hand was that unique and if he was a 'street-level' hero (which he isn't) then he should've been there from the beginning. Late party-crashers are frowned upon.

I liked Elektra's comments near the end when she was trying to reach Matt. Nice acknowledgement of history, but her previous answers were rubbish. Punisher wanted to know why he couldn't just shoot to kill and her response completely side-stepped the question.

I saw the most potential in the fight between Spidey and the Beast. I'd like to see a non-possessed DD fight Spidey because between his radar sense and Spidey's spider sense, should they even be able to land a hit on the other? Once again though, potential wasted.

Now with the Beast becoming more apparent, time now to page Dr. Strange for an exorcism and be done with this mess. Rolling Eyes
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Gee
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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Darkdevil, I have always been a great fan of DD's powers and their inventive use but have pretty much seen them disappear over the past few years to the point where DD is just a pretty good ninja, thats all, not really a superhero. He is lied to constantly and ambushed, the old DD powers would have stopped these things, why dispense with his powers? Lazy writing thats why. Why is Shadowland rubbish? Lazy writing thats why.
As said before this could have been great, its been bubbling for 30 years, brewing nicely but then they just come in and ruin it. Rubbish.
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theunrealstudios
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

man I'm so disappointed right now.

"The birth of the marvel universes greatest villain"

*drum roll*

.....The Beast...... this is one more reason why i hate magic.
lets take out religion and just get down to "magic". Over the years we've seen the tests of will take their toll on Matt and his sanity and now he's not even responsible for his actions. we haven't even gotten to go in his mind to listen to his- sorry "the beasts" warped justifications for these actions. Possed is up there with specific amnesia (Iron man), cloning (Thor), mind control and all the other bullshit story telling devices that limit the scope of telling a really good story as well as completely removing responsibility for a characters actions. heh "with great power (the hand) comes great responsibility (what Matt does with it) well now Matt has no responsibility because he can't be held accountable for his actions no different then how our courts treat a phycological case for the insane.

Why setup 30 years of nervous breakdown, schizophrenia, symbolic nightmares, lost loves, multiple personality disorders, loss of faith, loss of innocence and safety in ones life and suffering in general if your not even going to use that ammunition? it's just a waste of potential

look beyond that and we see that our focus is in the wrong places: kingpin you've done next to nothing and i've yet to find a reason to care, the super best friends and their attempts to "save" Matt we don't need to watch them have their fight escape, sneak back in and have their asses handed to them again. Marvel set the scope as a mini event and that's the problem. had it been a graphic novel that laid the focus completely on Matt with a few cameos here and there rallied to stop him then we wouldn't have a problem but now idk

it should have come down to the people rallied together to fight the hand. i don't mind the idea "everyone is in a panic, it's chaos out there" but saying the beast is corrupting peoples souls as part of his "magic" is just.....

in the end i was really excited for Shadowland and the huge amount of potential it brought (the man had a freakin' ninja clan in the palm of his hand for gods sake....no pun intended) and so far nothing has been a surprise or a big shock. perhaps some good can come out of this but until then what a shame.
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