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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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 Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | And, also, isn't there an assumption here that "whoever" tried to kill Foggy was also responsilbe for the FBI going after Matt? |
I don't know, but that is a good question. How far back does this go? Was the FBI director acting on his own or not?
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | Take Lilly for example, what pratical purpose does giving her pheromones that make her smell make Karen and then killing her in front of Matt so he will relive Karen's death serve? In my mind, I can't see a purpose for that beyond sadism, it doesn't serve a pratical purpose and I think it would be OOC for either Fury or Sharpe to engage in such sadism. |
Who says the whole point of the exercise is to engage in sadism? It is a distraction set in order for Matt to avoid searching for the answer to why Danny Rand is in a Daredevil suit. Foggy is dead. The smell of Karen Page. These are items that the mystery boss knew that Matt/DD would prioritize over Danny Rand in a Daredevil suit (the first objective the Mystery Boss set in motion).
C.
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Clayton Blind Love wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | Take Lilly for example, what pratical purpose does giving her pheromones that make her smell make Karen and then killing her in front of Matt so he will relive Karen's death serve? In my mind, I can't see a purpose for that beyond sadism, it doesn't serve a pratical purpose and I think it would be OOC for either Fury or Sharpe to engage in such sadism. |
Who says the whole point of the exercise is to engage in sadism? It is a distraction set in order for Matt to avoid searching for the answer to why Danny Rand is in a Daredevil suit. Foggy is dead. The smell of Karen Page. These are items that the mystery boss knew that Matt/DD would prioritize over Danny Rand in a Daredevil suit (the first objective the Mystery Boss set in motion).
C. |
But if the purpose was to get Matt what of the way, why have Foggy "killed" in the first place? Matt was in prison and the fake DD was running around before Foggy's "death" all the objectives were complete.
Faking Foggy's death is counter productive at that point, it gives Matt a motive to try and escape, when he may have stayed in prison and fought the charges against him the legal way otherwise (Fury could have used various tactics to dely Matt's trial in order to keep him out of the CW for example.) Giving DD a motive for revenge and thus a motive to escape would be a huge blunder for a tactical pragmatist like Fury. Machiavelli 101, you have to convince your enemies to lose the will to fight, you should never engage in pointless evil acts that will make them hate you and encourage them to fight you even harder.
Because Fury is pragmatist he would go for the simplest and most effective way to achieve his goals, not engage in overly involved head games. Fury may amoral at times, but he is never immoral. All of this is way too invloved, too complex, too personal to be Fury's handiwork, Fury would have made a simple yet effective gambit to neutralize DD in the CW, he doesn't have the time to get this involved with this level of detail, he has other operations to oversee regarding his role in the CW. It seems to be the work of someone who has a fanatical hatred of DD, I still think the level of detail and attempts to inflict personal damage would point to revenge has the motive rather than any sort of practical objective. Again this is just my opinion, I could be wrong and indeed Fury may be the mastermind, but I don't personally think Fury's MO fits the bill. But hey its just fun to guess and this board should about having fun. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: |
But if the purpose was to get Matt what of the way, why have Foggy "killed" in the first place? Matt was in prison and the fake DD was running around before Foggy's "death" all the objectives were complete.
Faking Foggy's death is counter productive at that point, it gives Matt a motive to try and escape, when he may have stayed in prison and fought the charges against him the legal way otherwise (Fury could have used various tactics to dely Matt's trial in order to keep him out of the CW for example.) Giving DD a motive for revenge and thus a motive to escape would be a huge blunder for a tactical pragmatist like Fury. Machiavelli 101, you have to convince your enemies to lose the will to fight, you should never engage in pointless evil acts that will make them hate you and encourage them to fight you even harder. |
Removing Foggy may of been a mistake (enraging Matt to escape from prison). Foggy knew of the fake Daredevil and it was implied from the very first issue that they had met more than once. Maybe the mystery boss knew of this and had to remove Foggy from interfering for fear that Danny Rand and Foggy would together learn that something was wrong. Afterall, Danny thought he was acting in Foggy and Matt's best interest and wearing the Daredevil suit because he thought they ordered it.
As I stated earlier, maybe Foggy had to be removed because he was Matt's most trusted ally and greatest source of information.
I don't claim to preach the truth here, but the more I think of this, the more I'm set in believing.
I am having a blast though reading and respecting everyones thoughts on this.
I still think that you must think in terms of who benefits most for having Danny in a Daredevil suit. It is the first thing established by the mystery boss. Everything else comes after this fact.
I'm not worried about being wrong here. I'm the master of wrong! Just ask my wife. 
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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Solarstorm
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
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It's the Rose.
He survived mommy's hit.
Blames DD (the spiel over his identity was what fueled the Silke coup) |
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Isaac
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Cordoba, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Haven't you thought that there can be incongruences in Bru's writing and (yes) narrative holes, and that not everything have to be logical, just like having DD in costume while abroad? Oh how you'll cry inside when you realise that at the end, it's a villain A-villain B question.
-Oh, it's the Purple Man / Mr Fear III!! Why did you do it?
-Because I'm evil.
-And why having Danny hired?
-Mm... I felt like that, you know... |
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Stanley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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If you're so smart Isaac, why are you a bartender?
Now MAKE ME A DRINK! |
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Isaac
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Cordoba, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| And still the smartest, blackest and loveliest bartender (in the most beautiful ship). |
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Stanley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 293
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Isaac wrote: |
-Oh, it's the Purple Man / Mr Fear III!! Why did you do it?
-Because I'm evil.
-And why having Danny hired?
-Mm... I felt like that, you know... |
Well, this could just be. Maybe this villain decided to have Danny hired to wear a Daredevil suit just because. Do you seriously believe that?
Bru wants Mr Fear to have Danny in a Daredevil suit. Oh really? Okay. Tell the Civil War writer and editors that Mr Fear put Danny in a Daredevil suit. You can't have Matt/DD in Civil War because Bru decided to write Mr. Fear making Danny as Daredevil just because. Sure thing. Lets make Civil War work around this idea.
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Clayton Blind Love wrote: | | Isaac wrote: |
-Oh, it's the Purple Man / Mr Fear III!! Why did you do it?
-Because I'm evil.
-And why having Danny hired?
-Mm... I felt like that, you know... |
Well, this could just be. Maybe this villain decided to have Danny hired to wear a Daredevil suit just because. Do you seriously believe that?
Bru wants Mr Fear to have Danny in a Daredevil suit. Oh really? Okay. Tell the Civil War writer and editors that Mr Fear put Danny in a Daredevil suit. You can't have Matt/DD in Civil War because Bru decided to write Mr. Fear making Danny as Daredevil just because. Sure thing. Lets make Civil War work around this idea.
C. |
I thought Brubaker said that this DD storyline was not connected to the Civil war storyline at all. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | I thought Brubaker said that this DD storyline was not connected to the Civil war storyline at all. |
I think I recall something said along those lines too. We'll have to wait and see. The fact remains that Danny is Daredevil in Civil War and we don't know why yet. We do know that Danny/DD was caught and being escorted to the Negative Zone prison system with his mask intact and talking very little to anyone. Perhaps, we are seeing the potentially important role Danny/DD is about to play in Civil War.
The question has to be asked. If Matt/DD isn't a player in Civil War, then why is Danny/DD so important and getting airtime in Civil War?
C.
_________________
Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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hylozoii
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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The mastermind could be:
A) Elektra
B) Punisher
C) Nick Fury
D) Black Widow
E) Ben Urich
F) Captain America
G) IronMan
H) Stick
I) J. Jonah Jameson
J) The Watcher
I wanted to stop, but I kept thinking of more. Though the last three are jokes. |
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train
Guardian Devil
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 659
Location: Hell's Pantry
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm pretty sure tha mastermind is Ronin |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| train wrote: | | i'm pretty sure tha mastermind is Ronin |
As good a guess as any! I'm lovin' the mystery!
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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