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Kirika
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 57
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 Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Meh... I usually tend to worship the ground Bru walks on so this is a bit of a departure for me. |
I agree. There was just nothing earth shattering. Maybe the Kingpin arc will inject a bit of life back into things for me. Also, I was just starting to hope that this would be the time when Matt moves on and stops beating a dead (or in this case crazy) horse. |
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Blind Alley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Lyon, France
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't understand why Lady Bullseye left DD alive after knocking him out.
Also I'm bit tired of the "DD as a victim", "DD being played" and so on... I wish DD could be more proactive. When was the last time DD had a real "heroic moment" ? a "F##K yeah" moment like they used to say at Dave's Longbox ?
And the "false arcs" are a bit annoying. I mean, there's no real conclusion here (DD still accused of murder, Milla's status unresolved, the Hand undefeated...)
I don't mind story-arcs not fitting the now-usual 5-6 issues tailored for the trades. Only, they shouldn't have sold us this as a story-arc (like they did with "To the Devil his due").
What's the point ?
I miss the old days from the 80s when there were two or three-parts stories and even stand-alones !
Then, the writer had to find a title for nearly every issue !
I don't think this issue was bad. I just feel a DD comic-book should be much better (and less frustrating).
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FatalRose
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Alta Loma. CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Bru missed the mark for me a bit with this one. I like LAdy Bullseye managed to beat DD (arguably the best MA in marvel) to hype her up but man... Nothing amazing or surprising happened. I think I will hold off my final judgment on this because it might be leading into something HUGE! Return of the King? We shall see...
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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:51 am Post subject: |
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"Danny and Izo's arrival takes a fight I was most likely going to lose... and gives us a chance at least."
I'm a big Brubaker fan, but it seems to me that under his pen Daredevil isn't the formidable fighter that he once was. It used to be that he could beat all of the Enforcers. In his first annual he defeated Electro, the Matador, Gladiator, Stilt-Man and Leapfrog all by himself. He beat Hogun the Grim. He has defeated members of the Hand before.
Now, with the help of Izo and the Iron First, I'm supposed to believe he can't confidently take on a dozen members of the Hand, plus a possessed Black Tarantula and White Tiger?
I agree with those that believe Daredevil has been to passive lately, but he's also been getting beaten up a lot more lately. Tombstone beat him up. Gladiator beat him up. Now Lady Bullseye has beat him up. It would be nice to have him portrayed as the respectable fighter he once was.
And yeah, it doesn't make any sense why the Hand would want Daredevil to lead them. But then again, I don't know why Bendis thought it made sense for Elektra to lead the Hand. Why would an organization want a traitor to lead them? Now, why would that organization want someone who always stood against them to lead them?
I have loved Brubaker's work on Captain America, Criminal, Sleeper and Catwoman, but this conclusion to his Lady Bullseye arc is the least satisfying thing I've read by him. |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Just a comment on the fighting skills... I think this was the first time even I felt that he was taken out a bit easily, even though I know this complaint has been directed at Bru's DD in the past. I like the fight scenes more realistic (relatively speaking), and that includes seeing the characters - on both sides, mind you - actually being injured from their encounters and not just walking away from them cartoon style.
I remember when DD beat a whole bunch of ninjas without his radar sense back in the Miller days, and while that may have been a kick-ass moment for many, I didn't like that at all. Why? Well, 1) It made me wonder why the heck he needs the radar sense to begin with and 2) It made the Hand seem completely incompetent. I guess I should also add that I hate those kinds of movies where you have a good guy (usually played by Schwartzenegger or van Damme) take out an army of bad guys with guns without being shot even once because the bad guys with guns are complete idiots and have the aim of a toddler.
What I'm getting at here, with DD, is that I think he should have problems with many opponents at once. Yeah, Lady B, a half a dozen ninjas, WT and BT should pose a problem to him. Even being a master martial artist, he has no superhuman strength and is severely outnumbered by people who actually know what they're doing. I know he took out a gazillion Yakuzas one time, but that bothered me too. Because there is strength in numbers.
HOWEVER, I do agree that Matt appears to not be much of a fighter in this issue in light of how much more easily Izo can attack and take out these people. Izo is going "Crouching Tiger" all over the place here, and I find that a little weird. The fact that he seems to be flying is also strange (and Iron Fist appears to be doing the same). Considering where Bru has set the bar for Izo, he should probably give an extra spoonful of "kick-ass" to Matt too.
PS. For something much, much worse, check this out (from DD #141 by Marv Wolfman + Jim Shooter, and Gil Kane + Bob Brown)
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | Funny thing, everyone is mentioning nearly every single one of the faults in Bru's storytelling I have been noticing for some time _now_. While I seem to be less bothered by them because I expected every single one of those, for this issue.  |
Or it could be that people, for the most part, have actually enjoyed Bru's storytelling and just didn't enjoy this issue. Just saying...
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | | Funny thing, everyone is mentioning nearly every single one of the faults in Bru's storytelling I have been noticing for some time _now_. While I seem to be less bothered by them because I expected every single one of those, for this issue. |
Or it could be that people, for the most part, have actually enjoyed Bru's storytelling and just didn't enjoy this issue. Just saying... |
Yep, that's certainly the way that I feel. This is a blip in an otherwise very enjoyable run, for me. |
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hekate32
Flying Blind
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Dimetre wrote: | | "I agree with those that believe Daredevil has been to passive lately, but he's also been getting beaten up a lot more lately. Tombstone beat him up. Gladiator beat him up. Now Lady Bullseye has beat him up. It would be nice to have him portrayed as the respectable fighter he once was. |
I was a bit surprised at how easily she took him down when he rejected the Hand's offer but not that she beat him. Matt seemed resigned to it in his monologue. Since Bru took over with him in prison, there's been no respite, mentally and physically he gets put through hell month after month. I'm just hoping Izo sticks around and does him some good, helps him get his head back in the game and we get to see some of those cool DD moments again.
Still very much enjoying it though. Great cast, dialogue, art. Never expect to find an upbeat story in Daredevil but now and again, maybe just a little sugar, Bru. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was a bit surprised at how easily she took him down when he rejected the Hand's offer but not that she beat him. Matt seemed resigned to it in his monologue. |
Yeah, that was sort of ridiculous.
"I'm too angry and she's too fast"
Bru could as well have added "...and I don't wanna eat my veggies today, hum" |
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Blind Alley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Lyon, France
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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If I could add another nitpick :
When Lady B takes DD down, there's a panel with an "upside down" shot of her and then a black panel.
It's like it's supposed to be from DD's point of view but DD is blind, so the "view" should have been depicted differently.
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Blind Alley wrote: | If I could add another nitpick :
When Lady B takes DD down, there's a panel with an "upside down" shot of her and then a black panel.
It's like it's supposed to be from DD's point of view but DD is blind, so the "view" should have been depicted differently. |
It's like that when Izo shows up and pokes him too. I guess it's supposed to be the "imagined hidden camera on DD's head" view. 
On a sort of related note, I remember someone a while back wanting to see more depictions of the radar. How do you guys feel about that? I don't really miss it much because it's just the artist's rendition anyway, like the red filter it's been recently, and doesn't really add anything unless they try to do something really different with it. It would be impossible to render it in 2D color anyway, even though there have been artists I've felt done a pretty good job in the past.
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Blind Alley wrote: | If I could add another nitpick :
When Lady B takes DD down, there's a panel with an "upside down" shot of her and then a black panel.
It's like it's supposed to be from DD's point of view but DD is blind, so the "view" should have been depicted differently. |
It's like that when Izo shows up and pokes him too. I guess it's supposed to be the "imagined hidden camera on DD's head" view.
On a sort of related note, I remember someone a while back wanting to see more depictions of the radar. How do you guys feel about that? I don't really miss it much because it's just the artist's rendition anyway, like the red filter it's been recently, and doesn't really add anything unless they try to do something really different with it. It would be impossible to render it in 2D color anyway, even though there have been artists I've felt done a pretty good job in the past. |
It would be very cool if they applied a 3-D effect to the panels that depict DD's radar, and gave away 3-D glasses with every issue. But somehow, I can't see that being cost-effective. 
I've been reading Superman Beyond too much, I think. |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Wallace wrote: | It would be very cool if they applied a 3-D effect to the panels that depict DD's radar, and gave away 3-D glasses with every issue. But somehow, I can't see that being cost-effective.
I've been reading Superman Beyond too much, I think. |
Well, sounds like a nineties kind of thing... I can imagine a scratch and sniff cover with the scents of Hell's Kitchen too. That would actually be pretty cool. 
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hekate32
Flying Blind
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | I think the main problem for me is that I simply can't fathom why the Hand would recruit DD for this kind of assignment or why they would think he'd be up for it (though Lady B seems to enjoy the fact that he isn't). Another thing... that was supposed to be one of the hardest decisions of his life? Any hesitation at all on Matt's part would have been completely out of character so it wasn't that big a decision, I guess. I just find the basic premise to be a bit strange. |
I was equally puzzled. They must really think he's hit rock bottom or are intent on getting him there. All I can think is the corruption angle - do they prefer a voluntary recruit over the stab/raise/scary red eyes approach? Does it make them feel more smug and handy? A way back when they first got Elektra, didn't she join to screw with them from within only to be tricked into killing her sensei and corrupted? If it was down to drafting a leader who was simply all kinds of kung-fu, the MU is filled with characters who are much of a muchness really. But getting Stick's little do-gooder altar boy to finally flip and go all darkside, that'd be a coup.. that's my only take on their possible motivation and I'd still be expecting the same response as Lady Bullseye clearly did.
Thanks for the old Bullseye scan though, that was a blast from the past. Those paper planes must fly under radar.
As for the three panels following DD smashing his chin into her knee in fury at the very idea, could've had a nice wobbly radar silhouette I guess then fade but what's purportedly Matt's POV does appear very much ours really. I mean, he's pretty much spark out in the first, we get to look up at her gloating then fade out. Why? Make the reader annoyed, deflated, mildly irked, want to pop her one for being so unbelievably cocky throughout the arc? If that was among the intentions, she certainly got under my skin!
I am with those who feel a little underwhelmed by this conclusion though. If you sat down and made the imaginary list for this arc - old enemy ninjas, new femme fatale, mentor of mentor, martial art guest stars galore, affair with gorgeous and accomplished PI (is it me or has Dakota been doing the majority/all of the actual solving crimes/conundrums since she appeared?) - it ticks a lot of boxes.
It made a good sauce but with those ingredients it should've been a special one, maybe a big dollop of Fisk will make it that way. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt adding another ingredient would solve those problems, if you ask me. |
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