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Gloria
Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 am Post subject:

The Overlord wrote:

Mary has the power to influence people

Maybe she's a fan of Dale Carnegie, tho' I think she missed the "How to Win Friends" bit lol

I agree he's a much better person than Purple Man (who is quite a super-powered jerk/bastard). And the innocent part of her (Maria) always has made me regard her as a tragic character. She's after all, a woman posessed by madness (who enjoys spreading madness around). I don't think she could be enrolled in a Registration/Thunderbolts type of group: she's too difficult to control.

Still, even if she's not a rapist, I don't think any of you guys would like to meet her in a dark alley.

Re Cranston: we know so little about him and his motivations, that a lot of paths remain open to be explored. The ones you bring out are quite interesting. Let's see what Brubaker has in store for him

The Overlord wrote:

Anyway, is there any villains you like to see Brubaker take on?

I wouldn't dare to dictate him what to do, he looks pretty able to write cool stories without extra help.

However, as for old DD villains which I think that would be interesting to have back, here goes a list (please note that I'm not aware of the current status of them all, If any of them is already dead, write it off):
The Jester, Mr. Hyde, Starr Saxxon, the Vulture, Slaughter and his gang...

An old forgotten enemy from DD Vol. 1 #70: the Tribune . He's related to law issues and supposedly dead, but... he was an interesting villain idea.

Also dead is Copperhead, but he was an interesting Noir, street-level villain (so, good for DD)... and anyone could don that mask again

Of people seen recently; I think Tombstone could be as much a cool DD foe as Bullseye has been. And the New Matador looks interesting too... Does he have a personal, hidden agenda? is he more than a mercenary/hired hand? he said something to Lily which intrigues me "you're an orphan now, like me... Maybe he had personal issues with Tybolt Lucca? I'd like to learn that there is more in Juan than the Jesulin de Ubrique goofiness Wink

Though I don't think the First-League Villains of the MU go well with Dd (i.e. Doctor Doom), I think it would be funny to have Namor back on a story.

Fisk deserves a good rest (if only to keep him of being misused in other series, yes, I'm looking at you , JMS!), in order to make a cool comeback... In fact, as the love for Vanessa made him once change his evil ways... I wonder if he could come back... but NOT as a villain! Maybe he's gone to Japan to reminisce about the happy, long-gone days, and becomes a Zen monk, or meets the Chaste... well, there are a whole lot of possibilities!

Not exactly a villain, but a real badass, is Rosalind Sharpe. I've said it before and I'm saying it again: it would be cool to have her back... Specially when she's probably sore about Matt being revealed as DD (she's not the type of person who likes to be fooled, and the whole "Daredevil's pal" charade must have her pretty annoyed Laughing

)

I know the question was about villains but, gee... I'd love to know what Willie Colon is doing right now!
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

Neilan
Tree of Knowledge

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:33 am Post subject:

Gloria wrote:

Quote:

Hey I like this "parents are Hell" theory! Bad parenting is the source of a lot of evil

Absolutely! There are alot of people in this world who should not be having children but do anyway. Heck, I might be one of them. I guess my kids, or their future therapists, will let me know about that.
I've always been fascinated with the idea of where does the line of responsibility for your own actions fall. When your 6 years old and you act like an a**hole, people will blame your parents, when your 26, the blame is yours. At what point does it shift?

Quote:

Also dead is Copperhead, but he was an interesting Noir, street-level villain (so, good for DD)... and anyone could don that mask again

I always liked the 2 issue Copperhead arc and wondered why he was never used again. Paul Jenkins did use him in the DD/Spider-Man miniseries, but he had new supernatural powers that I don't think were ever explained.

Quote:

I know the question was about villains but, gee... I'd love to know what Willie Colon is doing right now!

If you mean Willie Lincoln, then I'm totally onboard.
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood!

The Overlord
Paradiso

Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:

Gloria wrote:

Mary is not nice, but even monsters can be disgusted by other monsters. During the AoV crossover the other villains in the Inner circle tended to look down on the Red Skull because he was nazi. I think Mary would hate Killgrave on principal.

Gloria wrote:

Re Cranston: we know so little about him and his motivations, that a lot of paths remain open to be explored. The ones you bring out are quite interesting. Let's see what Brubaker has in store for him

He just needs a little fleshing out. Bullseye and Kingpin had professional reasons for hating DD, that became personal. While Larry had a personal reason from day one. Since it is very central to his character, Larry's hatred of DD needs a little background.

Gloria wrote:

The Overlord wrote:

Anyway, is there any villains you like to see Brubaker take on?

Most of those guys are still alive . Let's see about their status:

Another version of Jester was killed during CW (some goof named Jody Putt) so Jonathan Powers is alive. However he does a few problems, first of all there are a lot "Fun is Dangerous" villains out there, looking at DC, there is the Joker, which is the most famous of the bunch, but there is also Trickster, Toyman, Prankster, that's just at DC. Its a really crowded genre, though a fun one, so its hard to get noticed. He needs a story that could only be told with him as the villain, so that he is character rather a generic "fun is dangerous" plot device. Second, I never got why he was criminal, why didn't he just take some acting lessons and do bad community theater? Third his costume sucks, he needs a better costume. One idea is a red and black version of his costume, with a smiling "Theater" mask, but I wonder if that would make him look like a male Harley Quin. He has some potenial, but he needs some work.

I like mr. Hyde, he was blinded recently so he is less of a phsyical threat but I guess that gives to after DD, to cure his blindness.

Saxon is cyborg now and used to be a Cap villain, with him dead maybe he can be a DD villain.

Vulture is an alright villain, but be careful with borrowing too many of Spidey's rogues.

Eric Slaughter is alright, I have nothing against him making a reappearance. He could be good a support villain with his assassin for hire gimmick.

Gloria wrote:

An old forgotten enemy from DD Vol. 1 #70: the Tribune . He's related to law issues and supposedly dead, but... he was an interesting villain idea.

Don't know much about him.

Gloria wrote:

Also dead is Copperhead, but he was an interesting Noir, street-level villain (so, good for DD)... and anyone could don that mask again .

Copperhead isn't dead any more, he is undead. he came back as minion of Satan in 2001. He's back in hell know, but they may let him out. I don't know what you would do with him though.

Gloria wrote:

Of people seen recently; I think Tombstone could be as much a cool DD foe as Bullseye has been. And the New Matador looks interesting too... Does he have a personal, hidden agenda? is he more than a mercenary/hired hand? he said something to Lily which intrigues me "you're an orphan now, like me... Maybe he had personal issues with Tybolt Lucca? I'd like to learn that there is more in Juan than the Jesulin de Ubrique goofiness Wink

The thing that made Tombstone interesting, IMO was his relation with Joseph Robertson, of course i don't know if Spidey still has the DB supporting cast. Maybe DD can do something with it.

Now Matador II, I have nothing against him, but he does need to be a little fleshed out before I really like him. Bruce Timm often took a bunch of goobers like Mr. Freeze, Toyman, Mad Hatter, etc and made them way more interesting by fleshing out their characters and giving them better motives. There is nothing worse than a generic villain, at least Stilt-Man is funny, Man-Bull is a worse villain because he is completely forgotable. Matador II has potenial, but he is not quite there yet.

Gloria wrote:

Fisk deserves a good rest (if only to keep him of being misused in other series, yes, I'm looking at you , JMS!), in order to make a cool comeback... In fact, as the love for Vanessa made him once change his evil ways... I wonder if he could come back... but NOT as a villain! Maybe he's gone to Japan to reminisce about the happy, long-gone days, and becomes a Zen monk, or meets the Chaste... well, there are a whole lot of possibilities!

Yeah Fisk should stay on vacation for a while.

Also I guess they could bring back Synn, but ditch the crime boss angle, DD has too many of those and he never seemed like a big player ( he never came across as threat to Fisk and I doubt the mobs would followed jungle boy.) However if they focused on his role as a cult leader, then could be creepy, commiting ritual killings across HK.

Also perhaps they should bring the Gael back.

Neilan
Tree of Knowledge

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject:

The Overlord wrote:

Also perhaps they should bring the Gael back.

I really liked the Gael, but as he was an IRA terrorist, he'd need a heavy duty revamp to be relevant now.
_________________
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!

Gloria
Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject:

The Overlord wrote:

Another version of Jester was killed during CW (some goof named Jody Putt) so Jonathan Powers is alive. However he does a few problems, first of all there are a lot "Fun is Dangerous" villains out there, looking at DC, there is the Joker, which is the most famous of the bunch, but there is also Trickster, Toyman, Prankster, that's just at DC. Its a really crowded genre, though a fun one, so its hard to get noticed. He needs a story that could only be told with him as the villain, so that he is character rather a generic "fun is dangerous" plot device. Second, I never got why he was criminal, why didn't he just take some acting lessons and do bad community theater? Third his costume sucks, he needs a better costume. One idea is a red and black version of his costume, with a smiling "Theater" mask, but I wonder if that would make him look like a male Harley Quinn. He has some potenial, but he needs some work.

I must say that the first DD story I ever read were those Issues with the Jester drawn by John Buscema (with his re-designed "Harlequin" costume). I was quite small then and he made quite an impression in me, with his murderous version of Coney island. So far I had never read a Batman story, so the Jester always was the king of criminal clowns to it.

His motives to become a criminal seem naïve nowadays, I mean becoming a superbaddie just because he wanted to play the classics and was only hired to be the guy who gets slapped in funnyshows.

Still, there is something insane about doing that, and, if we take Powers as a madman, I recall an old, gorey film called "Theatre of Blood" where Vincent Price took revenge of critics who gave him bad reviews by giving them sadistic Shakesperean deaths... I could imagine Powers in this "Mad Ham" scenario

The Overlord wrote:

Saxon is cyborg now and used to be a Cap villain, with him dead maybe he can be a DD villain.

I'm sentimental about Saxon because the story was drawn by Barry Windsor.Smith. I think he's got some interesting things to be a good DD villain. a) he knew DD's ID at a time when it was still a rare thing to know and B) He took his showdown with Murdock personally and C) His death was teh result of his final fight with DD: wouldn't he resent loosing his carnal body and blame Murdock for that? He was a VERY conceited guy (which was part of his charm, ha, ha)

The Overlord wrote:

Vulture is an alright villain, but be careful with borrowing too many of Spidey's rogues.

I mentioned him because I liked the story Denny O'Neil wrote about him and DD. It is true that, in spite of this link, he would be still be mainly considered as a Spidey villain... But I think that using the Vulture in DD would be a fitting retribution for Kingpin being "borrowed" -and poorly used, IMHO- in recent Spiderman issues (I know that Kingpin was, originally, a Spidey Villain... but it was in DD where he achieved greatness, so I consider him mostly a DD villain)

The Overlord wrote:

Eric Slaughter is alright, I have nothing against him making a reappearance. He could be good a support villain with his assassin for hire gimmick.

That would be his perfect role: I can't think of Slaughter as a main villain, but as a secondary baddie he could be a great asset to DDs cast

The Overlord wrote:

Gloria wrote:

An old forgotten enemy from DD Vol. 1 #70: the Tribune . He's related to law issues and supposedly dead, but... he was an interesting villain idea.

Don't know much about him.

He was a Masked guy who set himself to judge what, in his opinion, was wrong in society: he was an ultra-conservative fellow, so he went after long-haired college students with too many ideas in their minds Laughing

The Overlord wrote:

Also I guess they could bring back Synn, but ditch the crime boss angle, DD has too many of those and he never seemed like a big player ( he never came across as threat to Fisk and I doubt the mobs would followed jungle boy.) However if they focused on his role as a cult leader, then could be creepy, commiting ritual killings across HK.

I think you just made me discover why the Mycah Synn saga didn't work for me 100%: the "Tarzan, king of the mobsters" premise was a bit too corny for me. In fact, the most interesting think of the saga was how he seduced/fascinated NYC's High Society. I think you have brought the cult leader idea before, and I think Synn would fit well in that role. And also, he's got a personal agenda with Murdock, too.

Neilan wrote:

The Overlord wrote:

Also perhaps they should bring the Gael back.

I really liked the Gael, but as he was an IRA terrorist, he'd need a heavy duty revamp to be relevant now.

The Gael was, at the time we were introduced him, was more than just an IRA guy: in fact he was killing old acquaintances from his own side because he just got to love murder: he was a psycho who enjoyed killing, and who followed his own agenda. Glorianna O'Breen was an IRA sympathiser and he tried to kill her all the same.

The pity is, to make a real good story to bring the Gael back, we'd need Miss o'Breen to be around (IMHO): I always thought that she could have been a good item in DD's regular cast, first, because of her relationships with both Matt and Foggy, and second, for her work as a Bugle Photographer: she was a good sidekick for Ben Urich (all her potential was wasted by some idiot writer who killed her for cheap shock value)
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

Gloria
Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject:

Neilan wrote:

Gloria wrote:

I know the question was about villains but, gee... I'd love to know what Willie Colon is doing right now!

If you mean Willie Lincoln, then I'm totally onboard.

Darn it! I put the name wrong! but yes, I meant Willie Lincoln. He was a cool guy!

Though the possible trouble in his case would be his Viet-Nam background: he was supposed to be more or less the same age than Murdock, but Matt "is" in his thirties, and a 'Nam veteran like Lincoln would be in his fifties-sixties (so maybe he should be re-vamped as a veteran of another war)
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

The Overlord
Paradiso

Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:

Gloria wrote:

Yeah, but besides your fond memories what makes Jester better than any other "fun is dangerous" villain? Heck, I have read Joker stories and from any objective standard, Joker is a million times better as villain: he is more intelligent, more evil, more insane, has a better motive, is a better dresser, etc.

Jester has to compete with Trickster or Toyman, because Joker is way out of his league. Frankly I'm not sure if there is nothing that makes Jester better than Trickster or Toyman.

Gloria wrote:

His motives to become a criminal seem naïve nowadays, I mean becoming a superbaddie just because he wanted to play the classics and was only hired to be the guy who gets slapped in funnyshows.

Still, there is something insane about doing that, and, if we take Powers as a madman, I recall an old, gorey film called "Theatre of Blood" where Vincent Price took revenge of critics who gave him bad reviews by giving them sadistic Shakesperean deaths... I could imagine Powers in this "Mad Ham" scenario

Hmm, I think post crisis Prankster did something like that, he had a sit com, it was canceled and he tried to kill the TV execs that axed. See this is why I don't like Jester, he doesn't seem offer anything that other "fun is dangerous villain" can't offer. Why should a read Jester story instead of a Trickster or Prankster story. He needs a lot of work in order make more unique and interesting.

Gloria wrote:

Well he works for Red Skull, so it still might be tricky to establish him as a DD villain. Also I heard he was gay.

Gloria wrote:

Eh Lex Luthor shows up in Batman comics now and again, he is still a Superman villain. I'm kinda sick of Spidey villains showing up all the time (Electro, Mysterio, Vulture, etc). Its getting sad. Existing DD villains should be developed and then new ones should be created. Enough borrowing Spidey villains. IMO, Vulture would need a real good reason to show up.

Gloria wrote:

An old forgotten enemy from DD Vol. 1 #70: the Tribune . He's related to law issues and supposedly dead, but... he was an interesting villain idea.

Don't know much about him.[/quote]

Now that could be cool, though I rather him being a hardcore law and order type to uses violence to target criminals rather then hippies (that would just be goofy). He should be like more corrupt version of Punisher (unlike the Punisher he would be racist). That's more interesting IMO.

Gloria wrote:

Yeah, he needs to be more focused as a character. The crime boss angle doesn't work. Also ditch the cutesy stuff, make him more psychotic, then he would really scary as a cult leader.

Gloria wrote:

Yeah, I have to agree he doesn't need much updating, he was already established as psycho. At this point he is ex-IRA character who is disgusted with the peace process so he is an assassin for hire. What needs to be updated?

Also I don't think Gael needs O'Brien persay, I think he could work on his own as a scary minion. Frankly they just need to make him more of a threat to DD. While other assassins use brawn or skill, Gael relies more on brains to defeat DD. He should use prep time to lure DD to an area rigged with bombs.

Last edited by The Overlord on Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gloria
Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:02 am Post subject:

The Overlord wrote:

Gloria wrote:

Starr Saxon

Well he works for Red Skull, so it still might be tricky to establish him as a DD villain. Also I heard he was gay.

Aye, as Machinesmith, he's got more of a "Cap foe" profile... Though Saxon being gay would add a new dimension to his confrontations with super-heroes, ahem

Gloria wrote:

An old forgotten enemy from DD Vol. 1 #70: the Tribune . He's related to law issues and supposedly dead, but... he was an interesting villain idea.

Quote:

Now that could be cool, though I rather him being a hardcore law and order type to uses violence to target criminals rather then hippies (that would just be goofy). He should be like more corrupt version of Punisher (unlike the Punisher he would be racist). That's more interesting IMO.

Yes, of course, the old anti-hippy mentality is to be recycled Laughing

. But he seemed to me some kind of very extreme neo-con, that would let him open to new developments, like the direction you suggest.

The Overlord wrote:

Gloria wrote:

The Gael

No, the Gael could work pretty well by himself... with the current world's terrorist scare, there could be interesting plots to be made about him.

Well, he can work without O'Breen being around, but since he got personal background with her and her family, that could have enriched the story: That's why I dislike gratuitous offing of characters... they may be not all that relevant to the plot, but they can enrich it significantly.
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

Francesco
Underboss

Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:51 am Post subject:

Quote:

Another version of Jester was killed during CW (some goof named Jody Putt) so Jonathan Powers is alive.

I'm curious, I too have read that on wikipedia, but I've never found confirmation of the existence of this "Jody Putt". Do you have any?

Also, I think that Trickster is a slightly different type of villain than simply the "fun is dangerous" type.

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