Daredevil Message Board

[LightningandIce]

Hi there! I'm new here. If you didn't read my introduction post in the "new here" thread, my name is Adam and I'm a one-time fan getting back into DD after a long absence. Since getting back into the comics, I've picked up a few TPBs to get into the history of the character that I never have before. My most recent addition was Daredevil Legends 4: Typhoid Mary. It was my first time reading this, or anything else from Nocenti's run. While I think I liked it over all, reading it out of content left me with a few questions that I was hoping some of the veteran readers might be able to clear up for me.

-For starters, the first part of the issue has Matt dealing with a blind kid named Tyrone, who lost his sight when he went swimming in a polluted river or something. That much I was able to gather through the rest of the book. What don't get is Matt's behavior: he's trying to teach Tyrone to develop his own senses like Matt himself has, except being a total jerk about it. He seems to be acting out of character for the first issue, and I was wondering if there was any actual context for this.

-Speaking of kids, what's up with Daredevil's fan club? There is a group of kids (at least two; I thought I saw a couple more in the background of a couple panels) that dress in skate gear and help Matt out, including following Karen Page and Black Widow around through a whole issue. Who are these kids and why are they hanging around so much?

-What's the deal with this "clinic," and why is Foggy not practicing with Matt?

-The most confusing parts were the last two issues in the collection, #262 and #263. The former is basically the first act of Maximum Overdrive (the Stephen King movie, with the trucks) while the latter has NYC being invaded by Hell. My research tells me the Hell thing was part of an X-Men crossover called "Inferno" involving a clone of Jean Grey. So what, then, is the deal with the inanimate objects coming to life? Was this also part of the Inferno thing? Maybe they were under demonic influence? Or was it something different?

-Why was Typhoid decked out in a robe and a crown or whatever when she faced down the Kingpin with the dragon thing? Is she somehow involved in the Inferno thing?

-Since the issue doesn't really tie up the loose ends of issues, what ends up happening after this, anyway? In the comics session of this site, TM herself isn't listed as appearing until #284, twenty-one issues after this TPB concludes. Does that mean that Typhoid Mary just disappeared from the series for almost two straight years?

-With that in mind, what about the other characters? The last we see of Karen is her running out of the hospital, believing Matt to be cheating on her. One of the sidekick kids is also upset for the same reason. What happens with Matt's relationship with them?

I guess my last two questions basically boil down to "what happens next?" In any case, thank you for reading and if you could offer any insight, I appreciate it. Thank you!

[train]

I'll try to answer a few of these. It's been a while since I've read Nocenti's run on Daredevil, so if I miss something hopefully someone will have a better answer.

1. Are you familiar with Stick? Matt's mentor and the guy that helped Matt develop his senses. I believe that Matt is trying to channel his inner Stick and be the mentor that he had.

2. It's been a while, but I think that group of kids are called the Fatboys. They were a group of local kids that Matt had a relationship with. After Nocenti left the book, I think they just fell into limbo. I always liked them and would have liked to see them pop up again. Maybe when Matt moves back from SF they will pop back up

3. After Frank Miller's Born Again story, Matt was disbarred. Rather than get his license back, he opened a free clinic to help the downtrodden in Hell's Kitchen.

4. You pretty much got the Inferno thing figured out and demonic possession was the reason that all items came to life. Other than the DD tie in, I don't remember anything about Inferno.

5. I have no idea. Anyone else care to jump in on that?

6. Again, I will defer to someone else. I will say that my favorite TM story is in the Deadpool/Daredevil '97 Annual. It actually a pretty scarce book due to low print run. It is reprinted in the Joe Kelly Deadpool Omnibus. Bendis also had TM appear in his run.

7. It was implied that Karen decided to return to the drug/porn underworld. I don't know if there is more to add to that. Like I mentioned before, the Fatboys just kind of evaporated after this run on the book.

[The Overlord]

I have a got a question, how much a feminist is Mary? I believe Ann Nocenti created her with feminist sub text in mind. Mary Walker seems a normal woman, Typhoid Mary seems like an adventurous psychopath, while Bloody Mary seems hate men. But I heard Mary was abused either by her family and by employees by of the asylum, so I assume Mary would have a particular dislike towards men who abuse women.

I ask this, because I think it might be an interesting story to put Typhoid Mary against Purple Man, who is a at this point a serial rapist and serial killer. I wonder if Mary would dislike this guy enough to try to kill him, just on principal? That could a good story, the psychotic Typhoid Mary on side and the psychopathic Purple Man on the other, with DD stuck in the middle.

[the gael]

[The Overlord]

[LightningandIce]

To train, thank you for your response. That helps a little. I still have a couple questions and comments, though.

1. I am, indeed, familiar with Stick. He was very much a hardass who valued discipline, and he's depicted as more or less forcing this on Matt the same way that Matt is trying to do it to Tyrone in the TPB. With that said, while it worked for Matt and did help to turn him into the man he is today, Matt has always been shown to be more sympathetic and caring than Stick was. I can definitely believe Matt trying to teach Tyrone, but the extent to which he was forcing his own training on the kid seemed a little extreme. Again, I'm kind of new to the mythology of the character, but from what I've read, it seems like a minor plot point when The Chaste is around that Daredevil can't truly fit in with them precisely because he wasn't as much of a hardass as Stick and the rest of them. That is why Matt's insistence on Tyrone undergoing the training seemed a little extreme for him. With that said, Matt does eventually come to his senses and drop the topic, so I guess its not so farfetched after all.

I can kind of see Matt being stressed out about something, and unintentionally taking it out on Tyrone through training him. Maybe becoming a mentor and helping the kid was a way of making himself feel better, and he just took it too far. I have no way of knowing this for sure, though, since I haven't read anything that immediately precedes the issue. It just stood out to me for being so blunt, since literally Matt's first appearance in the TPB is him jerking around a little kid.

2. Okay, I understand now. I actually remember seeing the "Fatboys" name pop up in the comics archives on the main site. I guess I assumed they were a villain group, since they had no information attached to them. How did Matt's relationship with them spring up?

3. I kind of figured it was something like that. I haven't read Born Again yet. I think that will probably be the next big addition to my collection.

6. I've read about a Deadpool/Typhoid Mary story somewhere, probably on TV Tropes or a wiki. Something about hiring Deadpool to break her out of a mental hospital? If that's the case, it sounds like an interesting story. I'm going to make a mental note to look into this one a little down the line.

7. Did Karen's fate unfold immediately following the events of Typhoid Mary? I assume Matt would at least try to reconcile with her.

Anyway, thank you for the reply and the further information. I appreciate the response.

[Francesco]

[train]

[LightningandIce]

Thank you again for the response and the information.

I've never read anything featuring Deadpool. Other than a few odds and ends here and there, Daredevil is the only comic book I've ever seriously read. I hear Deadpool has quite a fan following, though, and I'd be interested in checking it out. Maybe a crossover like that would be a good introduction.

As far as Karen goes, the last TPB I read before this one was Parts of a Hole, the one about Echo, which is the second major story arc in V2. It actually opens with Matt mourning Karen's death from the Guardian Devil arc. So if you are correct regarding Karen, that means the Typhoid Mary saga is her last major role until she returns to die.

You cleared a lot up for me. I appreciate the responses.

[The Overlord]

[Nightwing2001]

LightningandIce:

Actually Karen did play a role again in the book after she took off during the Inferno storyline. At the beginning of DG Chistester's run Karen was brought back into the book. I guess it was around issue number 292? But it could have been a couple of issues after I can't remember for sure. But she stayed around the book until about issue 375. A lot happened between her and Matt during this time before Kevin Smith killed her off in Guardian Devil. This really wasn't the greatest run of stories during DD's history (especially after issue 300) but there was still some okay stuff during this time to check out if you're interested.

As for the Fatboys I think they first appeared in issue #238 that had DD fighting Sabretooth during the Mutant Massacre storyline. At the time I thought they we're fun characters to have in the book.