Daredevil Message Board

[Dimetre]

It seems some people on this message board feel that D.G. Chichester's run as a writer on Daredevil has been unfairly maligned.

While I thought Chichester's run started out with promise, and that Last Rites is a fun read, it owes so much to Frank Miller. Now everything post-Miller owes Frank Miller, I think Chichester owes Miller like Vanilla Ice owes Queen and David Bowie. It directly lifts whole plot points from Born Again. It's a story that doesn't stand on its own.

After Last Rites, there were some okay issues, but I can not forgive him for the whole Jack Batlin mess. Again, Fall From Grace relies on Miller works, most notably Elektra: Assassin. If you haven't read that, you won't understand the stuff with Garrett. But I can't remember much else, other than how much it failed to entertain me. Tree of Knowledge was even worse, with each issue failing to flow into the next one. It was a very confusing read, and I don't think it was worth the effort.

The Alan Smithee issue (Smithee was a pseudonym of Chichester's) where Glorianna O'Breen was killed was awful. It's the definition of gratuitous assassination of a female supporting character. All they needed to do was stuff her in a refrigerator. The fact that he used a pseudonym suggests he wasn't happy writing it, so I'll make some allowance for that.

And I hated the Jack Batlin costume. If he's the Man Without Fear, he doesn't need to go around with armour.

So I think that Chichester is fairly maligned. The 300s are the most overlooked era in Daredevil's history, so I think that says something.

[Nightwing2001]

Ya I think his run is fairly maligned. There is not much of it that stands out as very good to me.

292 to 296 with the Punisher and Ghost Rider we're ok but not fantastic, I think maybe Lee Weeks exceptional artwork made them seem better than they are. Last Rites was not bad as well but is certainly not the classic it was made out to be. To me it seemed he was just trying to get the Kingpin out of the way and get Matt set up as a lawyer again as fast as possible. The whole thing was really rushed. 301 to 318 is so bad (other than 304, the "Time" issue that actually is pretty good) that I've never read any of them a second time. Fall From Grace personally I don't feel is as bad as everyone says it is nor the armored costume, but ya it's still not the best thing in the world either. Everything after that, Tree of Knowledge, the Humanity story and the Kruel stuff we're pretty bad as well. Honestly I think JM DeMattius really pulled the comic out of the dirt after such a long bad run by Chistester. It's just too bad that he was allowed to write it for so long, it was pretty hard to be a DD fan for about 3 years there.

I did like his last 2 issues he did for the comic #343 and 380, so there is that at least.

[james castle]

I disagree. I think I'm one of Chichester's defenders that you might be referring to. In any case, I don't quite understand what you mean by "relying" on Miller's work. Last Rites and Fall From Grace both "rely" on it insofar as they pick up plot points from it. Garrett first appeared in Elektra: Assassin. What of it? I thought the idea of The Hand wanting Elektra's essence and therefore using Garrett was a clever idea that "relied" on Garrett's existence but didn't rip off Miller in any way.

Same with Last Rites. There was a clear call back to Born Again but it's not like he stole any ideas of beats from that story line.

The thing about Chichester that I enjoyed back in the day and still think is worth respect is that he was doing new things. I didn't like Tree of Knowledge particularly either but at least he was pushing the envelope. I think the Jack Batlin thing could have been really interesting if he'd had the chance to explore it as opposed to having it shut down by editorial.

Finally, I don't think it's fair to complain about the Smithee issues. He took his name off them which suggests something went really wrong. I.e. he didn't even want them published or something.

To each his own I guess but I'm not sure your points really make out the case.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Kuljit Mithra]

I didn't like all of Chichester's work, but like JC, I liked that he was willing to take some chances. Even Chichester is quick to admit that not everything he wrote worked out. That whole Kruel storyline is cruel to read.

Just a clarification on the "Smithee" name... he didn't write under the pseudonym because he didn't like the story, he was protesting his removal from the title by the group editor Bobbie Chase, who basically "fired" him, and didn't want to tell him.
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Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com

[qtmxd]

I think I was the last person to say that Chichester was unfairly maligned, and thank you James, your points about his pushing the envelope were exactly how I felt. You also correctly point out that the Jack Batlin story can't be judged because it was not permitted to develop, along with other editorial interference.
I liked both Fall from Grace and Tree of Knowledge. They actually brought me back to the comic for a while. Fall had a paranoid atmosphere reminiscent of earl Fritz Lang, greatly enhanced by McDaniel's wildly angular artwork. I can still remember some of the terse dialogue...Foggy: "Don't forget your cane!", saying in a few words what took other writers pages. And while the red costume is classic, I thought the armor was a great change for a while. Tree of Knowledge, with it's living computer projections, was also really inventive stuff. And a major point was that this DD was not a jokester, a brooder, or a punching bag. No other writer did a tougher DD.

[qtmxd]

I also thought his figuring out how to integrate Elektra Assassin was quite an achievement, and if a writer is going to revive the dead , I think he did a good job on that as well.
Most forgettable run? In 50 years, there's been a lot. In recent decades, I think Marvel has justly buried Flying Blind and Bob Gale.

[james castle]

Well, if that's the case with the Smithee stuff then I'm not going to defend Chicester all the way. I hated those issues and Glorianna's death was insulting. Basically the second worst Daredevil Girlfriend Killing of all time.

On the upside though, I always felt that the armoured costume was awesome...when McDaniel drew it. It fit his style so well and looked awesome when he drew it. Everyone else made it look sort of fluffy and goofy. Also wrt that costume, I think they did a good job justifying why he would have it. I know he's the man without fear but when going up against heavy hitters it makes sense. Far too often the opposite is true. There's a shot in the climax of House of M where all the heroes rush Magneto's palace and there's just a shot of Matt Murdock jumping into the fray and I couldn't help but think "what's his plan exactly?". Is he going to try to punch some mutants unconscious? 80% of the X-characters could make him ash without a second thought. Armour, in those situations, makes more sense.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[qtmxd]

right James. I hate the crossover stuff where he'll just be floating around in the background for a panel or two. Either put him in situations where he can do something, or don't put him there at all. I like the stories where he gets off the floor as well as anyone, but not all the time. The otherwise estimable Bendis had a story where he gets beaten by a guy with a dog whistle (another pet complaint.... with all that ninja training, shouldn't he be able to regulate his senses?). In those arcs, DD seemed powerful for a change.

[Dimetre]

[qtmxd]

15 issues... you've got me there, I hardly remember Batlin doing anything. But my main defense is of Fall and Tree, and I can see our tastes differ.

[james castle]

[Dimetre]

You're right. Chichester wrote seven issues of Batlin before Wright took over, and then Chichester came back as Smithee. So maybe he didn't get opportunity to do what he wanted with his Batlin idea. I can't imagine it was very good.

I recently read Kuljit's interview with Chichester. He never felt supported by Marvel. However, in reality, he got to write close to 40 issues of Daredevil before getting yanked. It would seem he got his opportunities, but he and the rest of the Daredevil team resorted to gimmick after gimmick to attract readers. I think he was responsible for his own dismissal.

[qtmxd]

Reading this thread, it seems that one person's gimmick is another's really creative idea, and I'm with the latter on Chichester. The critiques of O'Breen's death are probably justified, but I hadn't then read any of the issues where she was with Matt, only her appearance with Foggy in Born Again so it didn't strike me as strongly. Since DeMatteis was mentioned, I liked his run a lot also... very creative, a good wrap-up to the chaos, and I liked the integration of the Man Without Fear death of the prostitute. A couple of really good artists also.
I dropped the book subsequently during Kesel's run. Matt becoming a jokester, and the idea that the woman from LA Law was Foggy's mother. I assume that run had its backers also.

[james castle]

[rgj]

Say what you will about Chichester, but let me tell you this:

1) Chichester has been the only post-Miller writer to have a fresh take on the character. Every writer, post-Miller, writes Matt as a victim. A victim of his circumstance. Every writer post-Miller has wanted their Born Again moment. (Matt's life crumbles). Or an Elektra-moment (Matt meets girl, but relationship crumbles). Chichester was an original. He wrote Matt as a man in control. For ages, Typhoid "tempted" Matt, her power over him, Matt took control and beat (bedded) her at her own game. Nick Fury uses people. Under Chichester, Matt used Fury. Total bad ass Matt. Loved reading that characterization.

2) Matt's senses. No one wrote Matt's senses better. Matt's perception of his world was in the narrative. (I can still remember reading how Matt percieved Ghost Rider as he came to Matt's aid--don't remember the words, but I still remember the feeling of how Matt "saw" the demon). With most writers, you tend to forget Matt is blind, but with Chichester you always knew about Matt's senses--his gift, and his curse.

Now, sure, after Last Rites, the stories didn't get better, he peaked with LR. But, it was still a joy to read Chichester's take on DD. I'll take Chichester over Bendis any day.
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rgj