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kentuckydevil
Flying Blind
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 79
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 Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DDTattoo wrote: | | RGdesigner wrote: |
I hope this gimmick is some sort of misdirection on Marvels part, but given their track record I doubt it. Daredevil has been one of, if not ,THE best book Marvel has published for more than a decade precisely because they avoided things like this. DD has been my favorite character for a long time and I can say without hesitation I will drop the title if this crap happens. I would hope other readers would do the same. If you don't then you're part of the problem. I've already dropped most everything else I used to collect from Marvel. Marvel and DC both seem to be bringing back the same gimmicks that nearly destroyed the industry in the 90s. |
I totally agree. One of the reasons I've liked DD so much is that he hasn't been subject to these big "events" and now he's the subject of one of his own. Very sad. |
I agree..
I've been a DD fan since my dad bought me an ish in the late 60s...I quit reading comics in the mid 90's and it was DD that brought me back just last year..since that time I've collected all the current run..from k smith till now...loved them all..didn't think anyone could top millers run but bendis and later brubaker came damn close..
but now....
I'M getting very nervous that marvel is getting ready to ruin an all time great character...and worse I worry the damage will be so great it will never be undone... |
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Darkdevil
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 331
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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It might be mis-direction. No mention has been made of anyone else actually assuming the identity of DD, just the assumption of the moniker 'Man Without Fear'.
So it could be that no one really takes over being DD. Whatever is forthcoming in Shadowland may be so bad that Matt chooses to forsake the DD identity because it's become so tainted.
In Born Again, Kingpin destroyed Matt's civilian life. What happens if his costumed life is destroyed as well? Would he have anything left? It may be the most tragic thing to happen to him.
All speculation of course...... |
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DDTattoo
Flying Blind
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkdevil wrote: |
So it could be that no one really takes over being DD. Whatever is forthcoming in Shadowland may be so bad that Matt chooses to forsake the DD identity because it's become so tainted.
In Born Again, Kingpin destroyed Matt's civilian life. What happens if his costumed life is destroyed as well? Would he have anything left? It may be the most tragic thing to happen to him.
All speculation of course...... |
Actually, it would make a lot of sense for Matt to retire from being DD and attempt to get his life back together. Maybe he becomes a reluctant mentor to a new Daredevil, then comes out of retirement in 6 months to a year when that person is killed (because they won't replace Matt forever).
I don't object to changes in a book when they happen organically in the context of the story, it's when things are forced for the sake of the Almighty Dollar that I have a problem, and replacing Matt with anyone for any reason, how ever much it makes sense is clearly motivated by profits. |
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Ryu Murdock
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Cainta Rizal, Philippines
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
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As I said on one thread on this board...
Ben Reilly was once Spider-Man. Dick Grayson and Azrael both donned the Batman mantle. But ultimately, Spider-Man is Peter Parker and Batman is Bruce Wayne. Same goes for DD and Matt Murdock. Wasn't Danny Rand the Man Without Fear a couple of years back?
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DDTattoo
Flying Blind
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but Danny Rand as DD was within the context of the story and not a gimmick to sell books.
Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker being replaced were gimmicks to sell books. Tony Stark was replaced by James Rhodes in the 1980's as a gimmick, Thor was replaced at least two times, when Superman was famously killed, he was replaced by 4 different characters. Some of the stories built around all of these weren't necessarily bad stories, but the fact that they were all born out of editorial plans to increase sales rather than a writer's desire to tell a good story is what makes them false. |
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The Mast
Flying Blind
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 62
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is, I've got all 508/509 Daredevil issues.
I'm not going to stop buying it, so I'm part of the problem I guess. They won't give the mantle over forever. So, if it turns out to be bad, we've just gotta grit out teeth and get through it. |
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Foggy's Pal
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 106
Location: BEHIND MY DESK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The Mast wrote: | The thing is, I've got all 508/509 Daredevil issues.
I'm not going to stop buying it, so I'm part of the problem I guess. They won't give the mantle over forever. So, if it turns out to be bad, we've just gotta grit out teeth and get through it. |
You speak a sad truth that, most likely, all of us are part of. I will withhold judgement for now, and hope for the best. |
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Max
Flying Blind
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 36
Location: The Empire State
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I do not like it at all replacing Matt. Nova ? No way.
But...if you need to give the title a short hiatus I say Iron Fist. I thought his short run was highly enjoyable with an entertaing cast of characters. Other than a few cameos I think the follow up has been weak. Not to mention the interesting cast of characters.
However, Rand was powered up pretty good so he may be a little too stong for street level foes.
In the end, like the above poster mentioned, I most likely will grit my teeth and wait it out. |
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Knatty Dreadnok
Flying Blind
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Interstate Of Mind
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm against this whole gimmick but if they're going through with it, I'd choose Kraven. If Marvel replaces Matt Murdock with Alyosha Kravinoff, Daredevil is going to probably look something like this...
The whole prospect is absurd but what the hell.
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Ryu Murdock
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Cainta Rizal, Philippines
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Frankly, I do not see anything bad with gimmicks. I see all crossovers to be gimmick. Really try to think about it. That is what it is. What if they replace Matt (for a mean time) and out from that spin a very good storyline or background that Diggle can use and all of a sudden we get a story that makes us forget about Miller and Bendis for a short time. That is very much possible. Or it could be Spider-clone revisited. But we will never know until the line is crossed.
And also, we can't blame Marvel for wanting sales. If they do not need the money. Disney won't be owning them I believe. And it's all our fault anyways. Had we not friggin' bought and sold out Shadowland #1 and DD#508. I doubt this new Man Without Fear bit would be of matter. Shadowland is selling, Marvel is milking. They're a business after all and not a charity.
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| If any of you guys want to stop reading DD because you don't like a couple of issues or the direction where it is going, it's perfectly fine. But please, spare us the crap about those who continue reading being "part of the problem". |
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DesignDevil
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 157
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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When I used the phrase "part of the problem" to describe people who continue to buy the book I was throwing out lots of thoughts and ideas and that one may have come across as directed at everyone.
Anyone who likes the Shadowland and New Man Without Fear POSSIBILITIES, I am more than happy for you. Keep buying. Keep reading.
I was specifically meaning the people who don't like it who will continue buying the book either out of habit or for completion sake or just "toughing it out" till it gets better. Buying something you don't like especially at the prices these days is stupid. I speak from experience. I used to be an X-Men junkie. I hated every issue by Chuck Austen yet I kept buying his book because I had always bought Uncanny and had this huge collection. That run broke me of that habit and I sold all of them recently. I don't mind having gaps in my collections. If I consider something subpar, I won't buy.
I posted this on theothermurdockpapers.com and it can't be pointed out enough:
The #1 reason why Daredevil has been so good for so long is that Marvel avoided stories/crossovers like Shadowland and gimmicks like “the New Man Without Fear”. DD always had stories that grew out of the character Matt Murdock and served the character to tell good stories. Recently this whole “thing” seems to have grown out of a conversation like this:
“Hey wouldn’t it be cool if DD had like a fortress and was a bad guy and had to fight all his friends cause, you know, thats awesome and badass.”
“But does that make sense for the character as he’s been presented over the last… aww nevermind, that would be awesome, we could have lots of splash pages of DD looking all evil and Ghost Rider cause Ghost Rider looks cool.”
“And then we can replace Murdock as DD. How about Nova, that’ll get sales up and it’ll be badass”
“Yeah dude, this is gonna be great. HIGH FIVE!”
“Why is Daredevil doing this again?”
“That’s not important, whats important is to get sales up with a temporary spike that will seem good in the short term, but cost us longtime fans and readers” |
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The Mast
Flying Blind
Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 62
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't gonna last long, even if it does end up being bad.
I will own 509 issues of Daredevil by this week. If I dropped the series for however many issues it goes on for, I'd only end up going back and getting them anyway. |
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DDTattoo
Flying Blind
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryu Murdock wrote: | Frankly, I do not see anything bad with gimmicks. I see all crossovers to be gimmick. Really try to think about it. That is what it is. What if they replace Matt (for a mean time) and out from that spin a very good storyline or background that Diggle can use and all of a sudden we get a story that makes us forget about Miller and Bendis for a short time. That is very much possible. Or it could be Spider-clone revisited. But we will never know until the line is crossed.
They're a business after all and not a charity. |
One may object to the principle of what Marvel is doing, that is, creating an "event" that wasn't organically developed in the story, and yet still enjoy the story.
On the other hand, you may not care that these "events" are creatively bankrupt, but still enjoy the ride the story takes you on.
Each of us has to decide whether and how much of our money we're going to spend.
Personally, I think there need to be more comics like "The Sandman", "Lucifer", "Fables", and "Y: The Last Man", just to name a few comics that were written by good writers who created stories they would enjoy reading themselves, rather than piles and piles of new comics driven by the editors' requirements. |
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Knatty Dreadnok
Flying Blind
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Interstate Of Mind
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryu Murdock wrote: | Frankly, I do not see anything bad with gimmicks. I see all crossovers to be gimmick. Really try to think about it. That is what it is. What if they replace Matt (for a mean time) and out from that spin a very good storyline or background that Diggle can use and all of a sudden we get a story that makes us forget about Miller and Bendis for a short time. That is very much possible. Or it could be Spider-clone revisited. But we will never know until the line is crossed.
And also, we can't blame Marvel for wanting sales. If they do not need the money. Disney won't be owning them I believe. And it's all our fault anyways. Had we not friggin' bought and sold out Shadowland #1 and DD#508. I doubt this new Man Without Fear bit would be of matter. Shadowland is selling, Marvel is milking. They're a business after all and not a charity. |
Ofcourse that depends on a persons perspective... to me alot of Marvel's (and DC's for that matter) gimmicks are a waste. Particularly if it's solely to boost sales, without giving the plight of the character much thought after the run is over. After it's over depending on how well or poorly it did they usually end up pretending the gimmick never happened or even worse come up with a lame excuse to retcon a series. Ultimately, they end up back were they started in the first place (sales wise) and have to dig themselves out of a hole restoring said character(s) to where they were before the previous damage was done.
I'm not saying gimmicks don't work. Sometimes things really do pan out for the best. I was just implying that they're not particularly beneficial for some characters in the long run. Daredevil is a second-stringer with a cult following... he may not bounce back as easily as Spider-man, Batman or whomever. But pardon me if I remain skeptical. I mean seriously, teasing readers with replacements like Nova, Gambit, Falcon and Kraven... if that's not a poor sign of things to come, I don't know what is. I get that they're teasers, but we will see... time will tell.
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