Daredevil Message Board

[jumonji]

This post is the second part of another post I just made in the “Least favorite writer” thread, when asked to further explain my less than favorable views of Ann Nocenti as a writer, so please read that post first, over HERE. The reason this part gets its own thread is because it means going quite a bit off-topic, and because I feel that I need to insert some more background in order to explain what I mean.

Okay, so let’s first approach this from a slightly different angle. Some creators/editors (namely Stan Lee and Joe Quesada, and possibly others) have gone on record saying that the appeal of Daredevil as a character is that he’s “handicapped.” I disagree. First of all, although this is nit-picking here, the word “handicapped” is not actually synonymous with the word “disabled,” though many seem to think so. A disability is a more constant feature that is present whether it presents an actual problem or not, whereas a handicap is more context-dependent. So, strictly speaking, while always disabled (and yes, I maintain that he is), Daredevil is very rarely “handicapped” in any of the situations he finds himself in while in costume. Matt Murdock, out of costume, would have a more significant handicap than his alter ego. But, I digress, because the second point I wanted to make regarding that kind of statement is that it’s incredibly unfair to the character. If that really was the big appeal, there is no way that the book would have been in print for almost 45 years. If I wanted to be flip about it, I would even say that claiming that Daredevil’s blindness is his big “thing” borders on discrimination. He’s a highly complex character who is far more interesting than that kind of statement would suggest.

This leads me to the next thing I wanted to say, which is that one of the compelling things about the character and the book is that this little “quirk” is treated as purely incidental, and is rarely the focal point of any of the stories about him. This way, the book actually gets around many or most of the pitfalls of protraying disability in fiction. I actually did some research on this (wanted to make sure I got this right), and many seem to agree that the entire comic book medium has actually been quite progressive in this regard. This may not always be obvious, but there are many characters that shed light, in one way or another, on the topic of disability in society. Obvious examples would be Ben Grimm and Rogue, for whom the actual superpower itself is also a disfigurement/disability.

To investigate Daredevil from this angle (and I’ll get to how all this all relates to Ann Nocenti in a minute…), I also dug up the following quote from one of the darker corners of the Internet. It is from a 1974 keynote address by Dr. Kenneth Jernigan, then president of the National Federation of the Blind, entitled “Blindness: Is literature against us?” Here’s what he said:

[Francesco]

I don't think I get Jenrigan's argument, and it seems pretty crucial to this discussion.
Could you provide a link to some page where his points get developed, possibly with some examples of these "themes of the depiction of blindness"?

[jumonji]

[Blind Alley]

Jumonji, I think there's a major thing you're missing with the scene of #254 you've been quoting.

Matt sounds like an # s s because... I think Nocenti does want him to sound that way.
There is a recurring idea in those issues : Matt behaves as a bully. A "moral bully". Things have to be his way or they're wrong (well this might have inspired a pattern for some of his fans).
So Matt doesn't understand that Tyrone has to find a way to cope with his blindness in a different way than he did (not everybody can get so lucky to be given superpowers by getting blind).
What was interesting with Nocenti was that she sometimes wrote Matt as an "anti-hero" but in an original way for a super-hero (not just by having him being violent or slicing and dicing bad guys).

Regarding her writing style (her dialogues especially) I agree with what you said in the other thread. More often than not, they sounded staged and un-natural. I think some future showdowns could provide good examples.

So I'll restate my opinion about Ann Nocenti : she delivered stories filled with interesting ideas but she sometimes presented them clumsily, hammering her point too much.
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[jumonji]

[Francesco]

I wouldn't take Jernigan's points as gospel. In fact, I found his essay quite disappointing.

A collection of straw-man arguments, tendency of mixing oranges with apples, a pair of literary inaccuracies thrown in for good measure, all wrapped up in a nice package of indignation.

[jumonji]

[Blind Alley]

[Francesco]

[jumonji]

[harryhausen]

You know, I'm a Nocenti fan and have never considered what you mention about her treatment of blindness, jumonji. [Really well thought out, by the way. Thanks.] Perhaps I'm not in tune with the plight of the blind. In fact, I know I'm not.

Curiously, it was under Nocenti's pen that Matt's weirdest and (for me) most jarring "moral failing" arose - his cheating on Karen with Mary. I mentioned that in another whole post, but thought I might repeat it here, as it stands as another glaringly unkind characterization choice.

Perhaps Ms. Nocenti is like the historical Communist party, super-liberal (uh ... at least, on paper) from a general social standpoint and then inexplicably intolerant/ignorant of a few, smaller issues (homosexuality, for instance, in the Communist Party's past)?

[Gloria]

[Blind Alley]

[jumonji]

[james castle]

First, let's get something straight: Nocenti is by far the most progressive author who has ever penned a Daredevil comic. Her run touch on the threat of nuclear war, violence in general (and against women specifically), environmental issues and, well the list goes on. She put Matt in a street front legal clinic where he served the poor. Nocenti touched on issues that were never seen before and haven't been seen since in Daredevil comics. Compare Nocenti's Black Widow to the sex pot that idiot Smith dragged out. There is no doubt that Nocenti is ridiculously progressive in her views.

Then you come along and title your ridiculous post "Nocenti's less than progressive views". On it's face that's just insulting. To make it more insulting your long winded post is garbage. What? Nocenti doesn't handle the issue of blindness according to the guidelines of one speech given in 1974. Well, holy crap...let's burn all her issues.

I think the problem here is that you have no idea what "progressive" means.

Ridiculous. Insulting and ridiculous.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?