Daredevil Message Board

[Blind Alley]

ROUND 1
Showdown 1 : #169 "Devils" vs #245 "Burn !"
Showdown 2 : #191 "Roulette" vs #247 "The Backwards Man"
Showdown 3 : #192 "Promises" vs #266 "A Beer With the Devil"
Showdown 4 : #219 "Badlands" vs #268 "Golden Rut" vs V2 #94 "Our love story"
Showdown 5 : #223 "The Price" vs #277 'Of Crowns and Horns"
Showdown 6 : #225 ". . . And Then You Die" vs #291 "All The News That Fits"
Showdown 7 : #236 "American Dreamer" vs #304 "34 Hours"
Showdown 8 : #238 "It Comes With The Claws" vs #380 "Just One Good Story"
ROUND 2
Showdown 9 : Winner of 1 vs Winner of 5
Showdown 10 : Winner of 2 vs Winner of 6
Showdown 11 : Winner of 3 vs Winner of 7
Showdown 12 : Winner of 4 vs Winner of 8
ROUND 3
Showdown 13 : Winner of 9 vs Winner of 11
Showdown 14 : Winner of 10 vs Winner of 12
FINAL :
Showdown 15 : Winner of 13 vs Winner of 14

In showdown 2, we have the last story of Frank Miller in his first run of DD versus an early Nocenti tale.
Vote for your favorite !
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[little_buster]

Roulette is very well written, but it's really the art wich impressed me. I think it's a nice try of Frank, which prefigures his work on "Sin city".
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[jumonji]

As instructed (and those are good instructions!), I reread both issues. With #191 being one of my absolute favorites - it may in fact be my number one favorite, depending on the mood I'm in - this was an easy pick. While #247 is an interesting read, I've mentioned before that I have some problems with Nocenti's style, and there are few issues by any writer that come close to #191.

#191 is a fascinating issue on so many levels. On the one hand, it's a very brutal story about Matt playing some seriously cruel head games with a guy who's completely paralyzed and has no way of defending himself or even talk back. On the other hand, you find yourself cheering him on as he does it, because you know how much Bullseye has cost Matt, and that the amount of desperation Bullseye is feeling is probably only a fraction of Matt's own.

It also has that "Matt trying to figure out why the heck he does any of the things he does" element, and you find him questioning whether he does more harm than good. This issue has been dealt with before and after, but never as well as in this story.

Also, the writing and the art is superb. The writing is wonderfully paced and has such a great tone to it. Almost everything written in this issue, when broken down, could stand alone as a great quote that says something important about the lead character.
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[Blind Alley]

As I remembered Roulette pretty well, I went and re-read the Backwards Man (to be honest, it's an issue I only have on a DVD, not on paper).
I was surprised that the penciler credited was Keith Giffen, I would not have recognized his style.
I found the story hard to "get into" mainly because of the art and the reference to a previous story (the death of Hazzard in American Dreamer) doesn't really make this issue the perfect stand-alone.

I think there are other nominated Nocenti's issues that are far better (maybe thanks to JR JR's art).

So my vote goes to Roulette.
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[james castle]

Well, that's it for the Backwards Man. Nothing in the world is going to save it now (first round against Roulette? even I had a hard time voting against 191).

That said, I love 247. It is classic Nocenti.

It "ties in" to the Hazzard plot but not really. If I recall correctly Hazzard and the guy from 247 are from the same project that made Nuke (and Captain America presumably). Right there you can see Nocenti's finger prints all over the story. She takes a very classic comic/superhero thing (people getting powers from "government programs") and says "well, what if this was really going on?". What about the accidents and the mistakes?

Plus, the Backwards Man himself is a compelling, tragic character. The fact that Nocenti ties a love story into the whole thing is just shocking.

Plus, the story is a commentary on memory and how it effects us. The idea of making memory a physical problem (a physical problem for heaven's sake!) is miles ahead of what you usually see in DD (or any comic for that matter).

The final piece of genius Nocenti fingerprint is the "fight". Nocenti freely admits that on occassion she would have to shoe horn action into her stories. Nothing says shoe horned action like alligator's in the New York sewers.

All that said, 247 is doomed when pitted against DD and a gun and Bullseye. Roulette is a classic. A little melodramatic. But a classic.

So good-bye 247. We hardly knew ya.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dimetre]

I think Frank Miller did some of his best art in "Roulette." And the layout of the panels is great. It's also the issue where Matt remembers how his dad hit him, prompting Matt's train of thought which led him to studying law. It's a great issue.

"The Backwards Man" is a very interesting idea. Nocenti during her run came up with some awesome characters, and Crock was another one. But I'm going to have to agree with the previous posters about how it doesn't really function that well as a stand-alone. I hadn't read this issue in god knows how many years. This showdown prompted me to dig it out of my longbox. Having finished reading it, and not being able to recall the incident that traumatized the Black Widow prior to the beginning of the issue, it's just not a self-contained work. Some awesome work from Nocenti though.

So my vote goes to "Roulette."

[Blind Alley]

There are a few things I liked in "The Backwards Man" :
- Nocenti re-using the "Never Give Up" from Born Again and giving it a new root
- the idea of dealing with memories in a positive way

Unfortunately, the art wasn't really my cup of tea and some dialogues were un-natural.
But yeah, Nocenti had a real talent to put interesting "intellectual" or "moral" stuff in a medium where the basics are masked guys fighting each other.
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[rgj]

jc makes many valid points for 247. But, c'mon, it's Ann, she rocks.

But, at the same time, we're talking Roulette here. Great story. And, probably FM's best art on DD. In fact, I think the art in this issue is arguably the best I've seen in the pages of DD. Miller took his time with this issue. Great stuff.

" . . . my gun has no bullets."

Damn, I love that line.

rgj

[jimdare]

Daredevil #191...classic issue for sure. That stunning cover prefigured Miller's scratchy and visceral style in "Ronin" (which he would unleash soon after), and one shouldn't overlook the superb inking stylings of the greatest inker (you're a TRACER! ) ever: Terry Austin! Not that Miller necessarily needed it, but Austin's classic embellishments pretty much improved ANYBODY'S pencils; case in point: John Byrne. His work was never better when Austin graced his pages.

And, of course, Miller's "writing" in #191 was indeed exemplary.

[Francesco]

[james castle]

I hate you all.

Especially Francesco.

But especially rgj.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Francesco]

The sentiment is mutual.

EDITED

Oh, and also:

[jumonji]

[Blind Alley]

I, too, think JC was joking.
And as I stated in another thread, the purpose of showdowns is to re-examine some great past issues, to give an occasion for old reader to re-read them and for new readers to seek and read them.
I think there's not ONE issue that's so good that it beats all others.
After all, it's a series so its richness comes in part from the great tapestry formed by all the issues.
Discussions on stand-alones are here to remember some good moments of the series and to talk about issues where the "quintessential" stuff of DD can be found.
It's really not meant to turn into a fight ! (though it's called "Showdown")

For instance, for #247 "The Backwards Man" and #245 "Burn !", I had to go back to an old DVD with digital comics and read them.
After JC's post, I had a different view on #247 and though I still don't think it's a better issue than Roulette (that according nearly everybody is the cream of the crop) it has some qualities that I didn't get the first time I tried to read it (distracted by the art...)

Well, for the next showdowns, I think I'll launch them tonight or tomorrow morning (there'll be more issues to re-read as they'll be 3-ways matches).
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