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Daredevil Message Board The Board Without Fear!
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How do you rate Bendis' run on Daredevil? |
***** |
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51% |
[ 18 ] |
**** |
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20% |
[ 7 ] |
*** |
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17% |
[ 6 ] |
** |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
* |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 35 |
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TheManWithoutFear Fall From Grace
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 468 Location: Dunmore, PA
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: How do you rate Bendis' run on Daredevil? |
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It's time. Maybe you want to hold off until you read it all in one sitting. Or maybe you have your fixed opinions. Seriously, how awesome was it? _________________ A man without hope is a man without fear
www.UltimateCentral.com |
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Forrest Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'll vote after I reread everything. Right now, I'm thinking three stars out of five.
If I broke it down, up until issue 50 gets a solid five stars, King of Hell's Kitchen is four, post-King of Hell's Kitchen is two, except Murdock Papers, which get's one (...maybe two...I liked #81 ). |
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train Guardian Devil
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 659 Location: Hell's Pantry
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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i've got to give it 3 stars. it could have been 4 or more, but the storytelling was so decompressed, everything was stretched out....presumably for trade paperbacks. if all of his arcs read like The Murdock Papers, i'd give him 5 stars. |
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The Overlord Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 1095
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Bendis was hit or miss, so I give him three stars. |
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Pete Fall From Grace
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 417 Location: Liverpool, UK
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Bendis/Maleev have both been stellar. They probably won't be fully appreciated for years. I'll miss 'em. Five stars |
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noypi-me Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 234 Location: Philippines
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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five stars all the way! maybe if look at it from arc to arc it might have been different, but since we're talking about the whole run it's gotta be a five. the whole over arcing storyline that concludes in murdock papers made it one of the definitive runs in DD history. _________________ "Are you talking to me?
...are you talking to me..." |
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Solid Snake PAC Playing to the Camera
Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 130 Location: Conroe, Tx
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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One of the most best runs in a comic I've ever read. Very good, all the way. 5 Asteriks |
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pynchon82 Flying Blind
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 25 Location: Champaign, IL
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I found Bendis's run to be quite stellar.
And while I was not always impressed with the storyline choices he made, he consistently kept me on my toes. And for this I praise him.
However, I give the run five stars not for Bendis, but for Maleev. His artwork was perfectly suited to this book and the mood that Bendis set with his writing. I wasn't tremendously impressed until The Golden Age storyline, but he hooked me there.
I actually have fears that years from now, Maleev's work on this book will not have received the praise it deserves. Maleev's work is, in my opinion, the best artwork to appear in this book in the entire run of its two volumes. |
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JR Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 343
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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It rivaled Miller until issue 50, and after that it made Kessel's run like like it would rival Miller.
I also do not think that even the issues that I liked will age particularly well, but that is just a hunch.
3 stars, barely. Bendis pooped the bed on this one.
JR. _________________ Even though I'm broke I got a six pack of beer. |
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Forrest Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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pynchon82 wrote: | I actually have fears that years from now, Maleev's work on this book will not have received the praise it deserves. Maleev's work is, in my opinion, the best artwork to appear in this book in the entire run of its two volumes. |
I don't in the least. From my time on this board, I get the solid impression that Maleev will consistently be viewed as one of the all time great DD artists, along with Miller, Mazz and Colan. In fact, I think the masses would generally rank Maleev as either first or second greatest, along with Miller. (Personally, I pick Colan, then Mazz. ) |
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Forrest Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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JR wrote: | It rivaled Miller until issue 50, and after that it made Kessel's run like like it would rival Miller. |
...JC was mentioning something in a another thread about potential camps, groupings of artists/writers that DD fans are drawn towards. I.e. if you like Stan Lee, you like Kessel, etc.
Well, this is yet another example of the camps idea breaking down. I agree that Bendis's run up to #50 was absolutely breathtaking, but at the same time I LOVE Kessel's DD. |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Forrest wrote: | JR wrote: | It rivaled Miller until issue 50, and after that it made Kessel's run like like it would rival Miller. |
...JC was mentioning something in a another thread about potential camps, groupings of artists/writers that DD fans are drawn towards. I.e. if you like Stan Lee, you like Kessel, etc.
Well, this is yet another example of the camps idea breaking down. I agree that Bendis's run up to #50 was absolutely breathtaking, but at the same time I LOVE Kessel's DD. |
Yeah, but you're a weirdo. Kessel and Bendis? What's next, dogs marrying cats? Children hating candy? What is the world coming to?
As for the actually topic: anyone who didn't vote for five stars should be beaten to death (or at least asked to rethink their position).
Was Bendis' run perfect? Maybe not (although I happen to think all the post 50 stuff is frickin' awesome so I happen to think the run was perfect) but let's remember what the hell we're talking about here. We're talking about a monthly comic. It's written as it goes along. It's a highly risky and experimental process. If a writer can string together 10 good issues they should be given a parade. With that in mind, Bendis' run has been ridiculous, ridiculously fantastic. I dare anyone who didn't give Bendis 5 stars to provide an example of what exactly would earn five (or even four) stars.
Whoever gave Bendis two stars is simple. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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rgj Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1580 Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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james castle wrote: | As for the actually topic: anyone who didn't vote for five stars should be beaten to death (or at least asked to rethink their position). |
To me, five stars means near pefection/perfection. And, sorry to say, Bendis was far from it. I gave him three stars becasue, to be honest, most of his post 50 stories were either/and 1) subpar 2) anti-climactic (actually most of his stuff was anti-climactic) 3) did not live up to the hype. Does that mean he is a crap writer? No, not at all. Does that mean he doesn't deserve 5 stars? You betcha.
rgj |
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Forrest Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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james castle wrote: | We're talking about a monthly comic. It's written as it goes along. It's a highly risky and experimental process. |
...What? This is the comic industry and it's this is the way it's been going to decades. Sure, it's not as conventional a storytelling process as say novels, movies, etc., but it's not entirely different from television. While I haven't voted yet, (I will this weekend after rereading Bendis's run), when I said I think it was 3 stars, I was comparing Bendis's DD to that of other monthly comics and DD runs. Therefore, giving Bendis slack because he only had a month to write each issue isn't relevent.
james castle wrote: | I dare anyone who didn't give Bendis 5 stars to provide an example of what exactly would earn five (or even four) stars. |
Well you asked. (Keep in mind, there is a chance that'll I vote 4-5 stars on this poll, but as of now, it's ~3.) Here's a few, off the top of my head. Hopefully, this doesn't distract too bad from the main thread topic.
Five star runs (excluding graphic novels like Blankets ):
Indentity Crisis (...maybe minis don't count)
Busiek/Nord's Conan
Lieberman's Batman (Gotham Knights)
Geoff Johns's Teen Titans
Astonishing X-Men
Batman Hush
Miller's DD
Lee's DD
Roy Thomas's DD
Winick's Batman
Brubaker's Captain America
Alias (+first Pulse arc)
DD: Yellow (again, mini)
Alan Grant's Batman
Parts of a Hole
Chichester's DD
Nocenti's DD
Runaways
Wolfman/Perez's New Teen Titans (although I haven't read the entire run, yet)
Gotham Central (entire series -Rucka/Brubaker)
Brubaker's Catwoman
Four stars:
USM
Ellis's UFF
Azzarello's post-Hush Batman arc
Puckett/Peterson/Scott's Batgirl (...maybe five...)
Miller's 1st DD run
Kesel/Nord's DD run
Loeb/Sale's Batman work (I haven't read Haunted Knight, however.)
Azzarello's Superman (...Lee's Superman is 834 stars! )
O'Neil's DD (...if only would have left out a few things like Micah Synn...)
Rucka's Wonder Woman
Jinx
When I was thinking of this list, the first Superman/Batman arc came to mind. That is a breathtaking story (despite that stupid and silly robot at the end), easily 5 stars. Then, I realized that I would need to judge his entire run, and at this point, it's a 2-3 stars. In that regard, I'm reminded of my current impression of Bendis's DD. It started off amazing, then there was a mediocre arc, followed by almost a betrayl of the energy and quality in the first part of the run. That's unfortunate, but it happens a lot. |
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Forrest Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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rgj wrote: | To me, five stars means near pefection/perfection. |
...This is interesting because I agree. At the same time, when I was putting a list together for jc (), my initial reaction was to divide Nocenti run into pre-Typhoid Mary (easily 5 stars) and post (4), and the same with Chichester (pre-#320 - solid 5 stars, the rest being 4 stars)... Heck, I even did the same with Miller (Born Again = 5 stars, everything else = 4), but that's not what we're doing with Bendis, here. When I considered Nocenti and Chichester's entire runs, I could only justify 5 stars. Their sheer quality of their work coupled with my enjoyment in reading these issues justifies a 5 stars rating. ...but what about DD's mental breakdown in Nocenti's arc (I thought that was a stupid idea, despite the fact that I loved DD getting out of NYC for a while), those odd and uninspired issues when Matt returns to NYC and fights Bullseye in his own costume, Tree of Knowledge, Sir, etc.?
This is the exact same situation I'm faced with in Bendis's run. Looking at the big picture did these writers simply run out of steam? As much as I liked Nocenti, I might say "yes" in her case. With Chichester, the downfalls near the end of his run were not due to a lack of energy or passion to write great DD stories, but by daring attempts to really push the envelope of DD and superhero comics in general. I can feel intense energy, passion, and respect for the character at the end of Chichester's DD. That's admirable and I couldn't give Chichester any less than 5 stars. Yep, even though he ~killed Matt Murdock, changed the costume, etc., I never felt that his didn't respect the character and his lore. To this day, I feel that he respected DD more than most DD writers.
With Bendis, I'm thinking it's almost a mix of the two. I think he was very burned out and distracted. At the same time, I think he was trying to push the envelope.
In summary, I think I can justify giving Chichester a 5 stars, while giving Bendis less. However, if I'm giving Nocenti 5, I think I might be a hypocrite to give Bendis less because of his final DD work, which I think has essentially the same flaws as Nocenti's. |
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