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Are the Netflix series villains the best villains in the MCU

 
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: Are the Netflix series villains the best villains in the MCU Reply with quote

I don't know how many Marvel movies everyone has seen here, but I thought I would ask how the Marvel movie villains compare to the villains from the Netflix series (I think including the Jessica Jones villains are fair, because they are both DD affiliated villains in the comics).

The two major villains were Wilson Fisk and Kilgrave, with Nuke, Owl, Nobu (who seems to be a member of the Hand), Madame Gao (who may be a major Iron Fist character in disguise) and Wesley as minor antagonists.

I liked both Kingpin and Kilgrave as villains for different reasons, Kingpin is an intelligent villain, who lacks some social graces, but has just enough sympathetic traits to be somewhat relatable. Kilgrave is good as a repulsive pure evil psychopath with no redeeming characteristics. I liked most of the minor villains from both series as well. I'm guessing most people here would have preferred Fisk to Kilgrave, but I like them both equally and they are hard to compare to each other.

Besides Loki, most of the Marvel movie villains have been unimpressive, that dark elf from Thor 2 was really boring, Red Skull seemed rather dull and muted compared to his comic book counter part. Whiplash was underused. Ronan was okay. The movie villains are a rather forgettable lot.
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Ash-n-Bone
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure. Like you said, the movies have quite dull villains. Loki is their best but even he can't compare to the Netflix villains.

Fisk was great, and such a childish guy. Kilgrave was the ultimate creep, though I actually sympathised with his sitaution more than Fisk's (the whole experimentation thing).

Nuke was awesome, he really added something special to the show.

And Madame Gao is another standout who I can't wait to see more of.

The best shot the movies have at producing some solid antagonists is Doctor Strange.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ash-n-Bone wrote:
For sure. Like you said, the movies have quite dull villains. Loki is their best but even he can't compare to the Netflix villains.

Fisk was great, and such a childish guy. Kilgrave was the ultimate creep, though I actually sympathised with his sitaution more than Fisk's (the whole experimentation thing).

Nuke was awesome, he really added something special to the show.

And Madame Gao is another standout who I can't wait to see more of.

The best shot the movies have at producing some solid antagonists is Doctor Strange.


I would agree with most of that (except I don't find Kilgrave sympathetic at all). I also heard that Agents of Shield has a pretty good version of Mr. Hyde in it (I don't watch that show, gave up after 5 episodes, I'm not sure if Hyde is a DD associated villain or not).

Here is a list Entertainment Weekly did of the best TV comic book villains and Kilgrave and Fisk are near the top, though they named Reverse Flash from the Flash TV show as the best villain:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/18/best-superhero-tv-villains-2015/2


Last edited by The Overlord on Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd consider Mr. Hyde a Daredevil villain, although not exclusively. I really like Agent of SHIELD's take on Calvin Zabo but mostly because of Kyle MacLachlan is always a pleasure to watch.
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Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Overlord wrote:
Ash-n-Bone wrote:
For sure. Like you said, the movies have quite dull villains. Loki is their best but even he can't compare to the Netflix villains.

Fisk was great, and such a childish guy. Kilgrave was the ultimate creep, though I actually sympathised with his sitaution more than Fisk's (the whole experimentation thing).

Nuke was awesome, he really added something special to the show.

And Madame Gao is another standout who I can't wait to see more of.

The best shot the movies have at producing some solid antagonists is Doctor Strange.


I would agree with most of that (except I don't find Kilgrave sympathetic at all). I also heard that Agents of Shield has a pretty good version of Mr. Hyde in it (I don't watch that show, gave up after 5 episodes, I'm not sure if Hyde is a DD associated villain or not).

Here is a list Entertainment Weekly did of the best TV comic book villains and Kilgrave and Fisk are near the top, though they named Reverse Flash from the Flash TV show as the best villain:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/18/best-superhero-tv-villains-2015/2


I admit Reverse Flash is one hell of a villain. Come to think of it, so is Zoom.

I'm really hoping they get Davos/Steel Serpent right.
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on how you view villains. I don't really consider myself a fan of any villain. I rate them based on the difficulties they represent to the character I'm reading about. Often that comes down to how a writer uses somebody.

That approach still goes hand in hand with a villains character so the more depth to a villain the more involving a story can be. Netflix gets the advantage there from it's format. You get twelve plus hours to intertwine and get to know how and why the hero and villains motivations and actions intertwine.

In a two hour film you have to set up the plot and then establish and resolve the conflict. I don't think Marvel are as focussed on villains as DC have been in their films, Marvel just need a reason for the hero to go through some stuff and then punch someone, they aren't tying the entertainment value to the bad guy. I don't think it makes the Marvel villains dull, it's just a different approach. People talk about Whiplash being weak in Iron Man 2 but that film had one of the best action scenes with Tony and Rhodey taking out the drones.

Marvel's best villain has been Hydra in the Winter Soldier. That reveal changed the entire make up of the MCU while being relevant, challenging and surprising.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayle88 wrote:
It depends on how you view villains. I don't really consider myself a fan of any villain. I rate them based on the difficulties they represent to the character I'm reading about. Often that comes down to how a writer uses somebody.

That approach still goes hand in hand with a villains character so the more depth to a villain the more involving a story can be. Netflix gets the advantage there from it's format. You get twelve plus hours to intertwine and get to know how and why the hero and villains motivations and actions intertwine.

In a two hour film you have to set up the plot and then establish and resolve the conflict. I don't think Marvel are as focussed on villains as DC have been in their films, Marvel just need a reason for the hero to go through some stuff and then punch someone, they aren't tying the entertainment value to the bad guy. I don't think it makes the Marvel villains dull, it's just a different approach. People talk about Whiplash being weak in Iron Man 2 but that film had one of the best action scenes with Tony and Rhodey taking out the drones.

Marvel's best villain has been Hydra in the Winter Soldier. That reveal changed the entire make up of the MCU while being relevant, challenging and surprising.


I think a good villain can make for a stronger movie though, Dark Knight wouldn't have been as good without the Joker and Thor the Dark World suffered from one of the dullest villains to appear in a comic book movie. I thought Whiplash has potential, he was just underused, if he had been more prominent in the movie, he could have great, but the movie got side tracked with that whole "Tony has to find a new element to fix his heart condition" story line for most of the second act, so Whiplash didn't get nearly enough spot light in the movie where he is the Big Bad.

I did like Hydra as the villains in Captain America Winter Solider, though that was more an ensemble piece of villains, rather then one really standing out, they will did with their roles, but I wouldn't rank them with the movie versions of Joker, Magneto or Loki, though they certainly did have an impact.. I was pretty disappointed in movie Red skull, he lacked most of the creepy and sinister elements from the comics and seemed like a generic James Bond bad guy.

I think the fact that the Netflix shows focus on one or two bad guys mostly, can make for stronger villains then a show with a "freak of the week format". I think the Netflix shows have better bad guys then Agents of Shield.
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