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So how will Daredevil become a better fighter?

 
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MarcWagz
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:36 pm    Post subject: So how will Daredevil become a better fighter? Reply with quote

So I am concerned that after watching the series a second time that there is absolutely no way that Matt could be any use to the expected Defenders line up in the upcoming miniseries... I mean, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, and Iron Fist... team up with this Matt Murdock who, while being a decent fighter, essentially lost to 1 hand ninja, can barely beat a room full of guys, and beat a kingpin who didn't really have any combat feats other then beating up one guy at a time.

So I'm thinking, how will they make Matt a better fighter before the Defenders? I'm assuming DD Season 2 comes out before the Defenders, but I'm also assuming they will have to make him more powerful in a way that does not violate the grounded nature of the series, or else season 2 will seem really weird compared to season 1.

What I am hoping happens:
Stick comes back, they fight a bunch, but then Matt lets Stick continue his training.

What may happen:
Matt trains by himself, meditates a lot and becomes stronger, and through crime fighting experience is a lot better at it.

What I am afraid of happening:
Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Iron Fist are weak, depowered versions of themselves. Luke cage just wears a bullet proof vest and is a pretty strong guy, Iron fist just does kung fu and Jessica Jones has no powers other than being a detective. Please don't do this or I will not even watch the defenders.

If you are wondering why I say DD seems weak for the MCU, its worth noting that Black Widow takes out 8 guys in Iron Man 2 in a much shorter amount of time than it takes Matt to take ot the 8 guys in episode 2.
She uses shocker things but still, she is able to knock guys out a lot faster than Matt could, and she's a good spy but she isn't supposed to be as good a fighter as Daredevil is...
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Daredevil24
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 367

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke Cage will have powers according Mike Coltler.Maybe DD's new body armor will have some minor tweaks to it like his Fall from Grace outfit.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like this argument is like saying Batman is no use to the Justice League or criticizing the unpowered members of the Avengers.

Daredevil will become a better fighter simply by fighting more. I don't think anything else is needed.

BTW, what makes you think Kingpin didn't have any combat feats?
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MarcWagz
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
I feel like this argument is like saying Batman is no use to the Justice League or criticizing the unpowered members of the Avengers.

Daredevil will become a better fighter simply by fighting more. I don't think anything else is needed.

BTW, what makes you think Kingpin didn't have any combat feats?


ya but batman is the detective of the justice league. Jessica jones would be the detective of the defenders.

Its more similar to Black Widow and the avengers, she doesn't seem like much use but she seems to do better at beating up guys than Matt in the MCU.

Plus since Matt was "The First Defender" I expect him to have a big role in the defenders, and not be a minor character like Black Widow arguably is in the avengers.

I mean even though Captain America is quite a lot weaker than the other avengers (ignoring Hawkeye and BW, talking about those who had their own movies) the producers were able to make him almost as threatening as the rest of them so it made sense they would be a team. At least he has the shield that can block all their attacks.

But with Daredevil on this team I am not sure what his purpose would be...
Iron Fist will likely be a better martial artist, and be better at beating up goons. He also has the heavy attack he can use. Jessica Jones can fly, unless they take that power away.
Luke Cage is the guy who can take all the hits, so even though Matt likes to get beat up they actually have a guy for that now.
I just am not sure what they will use him for, unless they just use him as a stealthy guy for sneaking through things and getting intel, still Matts form of getting intel in the show was beating the crap out of people.

As for Fisk having no combat feats, in the show all he really did was beat up that Russian guy, beat up a weakened daredevil, kill Leland, beat up a guard who wouldn't fight back and he even ran away before the last fight as he clearly was afraid to fight him.

He's not like the comic kingpin who fights 8 martial artists at once without getting hit, or lifts 500+ pounds over his head for a workout.
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarcWagz wrote:
Mike Murdock wrote:
I feel like this argument is like saying Batman is no use to the Justice League or criticizing the unpowered members of the Avengers.

Daredevil will become a better fighter simply by fighting more. I don't think anything else is needed.

BTW, what makes you think Kingpin didn't have any combat feats?


ya but batman is the detective of the justice league. Jessica jones would be the detective of the defenders.

Its more similar to Black Widow and the avengers, she doesn't seem like much use but she seems to do better at beating up guys than Matt in the MCU.

Plus since Matt was "The First Defender" I expect him to have a big role in the defenders, and not be a minor character like Black Widow arguably is in the avengers.

I mean even though Captain America is quite a lot weaker than the other avengers (ignoring Hawkeye and BW, talking about those who had their own movies) the producers were able to make him almost as threatening as the rest of them so it made sense they would be a team. At least he has the shield that can block all their attacks.

But with Daredevil on this team I am not sure what his purpose would be...
Iron Fist will likely be a better martial artist, and be better at beating up goons. He also has the heavy attack he can use. Jessica Jones can fly, unless they take that power away.
Luke Cage is the guy who can take all the hits, so even though Matt likes to get beat up they actually have a guy for that now.
I just am not sure what they will use him for, unless they just use him as a stealthy guy for sneaking through things and getting intel, still Matts form of getting intel in the show was beating the crap out of people.

As for Fisk having no combat feats, in the show all he really did was beat up that Russian guy, beat up a weakened daredevil, kill Leland, beat up a guard who wouldn't fight back and he even ran away before the last fight as he clearly was afraid to fight him.

He's not like the comic kingpin who fights 8 martial artists at once without getting hit, or lifts 500+ pounds over his head for a workout.


Well the DD TV series is trying to be somewhat more realistic then the comics, so they gave the heroes and villains more realistic combat feats, but they can develop into more formidable fighters later.

Black Widow has been a spy for years, maybe a decade, DD is just starting out as a hero, he was a rookie in this series, he has a lot of room to grow. Batman got beat up 3 normal thugs in his first comic book outing in Year One, getting better with experience is just natural.

I think Daredevil will the defacto leader of the Defenders, just like he was in the Marvel Knights group from 2000. Sure Jessica is a detective, but she is not Batman, she is a private detective, and an alcoholic who suffers from PTSD. She will likely over come a lot of this in her series, but she is still a little unstable and has never been a Batman level detective.

DD's super senses allow for some recon that the other heroes don't. I also think DD could have some leadership qualities in this series.

Iron Fist would be a better fighter and Jessica and Luke Cage would be stronger, but I still think he would likely bring enough to the table to justify his presence, without everyone else getting nerfed in the process.
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Thayrone Ibsen
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Joined: 13 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarcWagz put up very valid points. I was surprised at how much attention the producers gave to the aspects of the fragility of Matt's body and to the fighting moves. This second aspect is curious, because at the same time we get to see amazing fight coreographies (that I never imagined DD doing, by his fights in the comics), we also see that Matt has to hit so, so many times to get some regular dudes to drop! So what, on top of frail he's also a weakling? And that many useless (but beautiful) hits/moves by a guy who can off someone by simply pushing/punching the right nerve... So, this is really some of the ups versus downs points of the series (they got many things "right", but there's some minor "wrongs"). And yes, I think some changes are going to be odd in Season 2 and/or Defenders.
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Mike Murdock
Golden Age


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of regular dudes can take a beating too, though. I think if Matt can take 20 punches in a fight, it's not unrealistic to expect the people he's fighting to take three or four.
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Dayle88
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how much research went into making the show 'realistic' but if you've ever watched one of those horrible videos of people being attacked you'll see that, while they may be seriously injured, they can be beaten to the ground and stamped on and still get up even if they are stumbling around. It's safe to say a bunch of thugs used to violence can take their beatings. I loved this aspect of the show, I think watching too many sensational 'Hollywood real' fight scenes has given a skewed perspective on what is good or bad fighting. As far as criminals are concerned they are fighting for their lives as much as Matt is, if they aren't out cold they are going to get up if they can

The punches that aren't seen are the ones that knock people out, rarely anything to do with power. Matt isn't a weakling and strength has nothing to do with hitting power anyway. I don't think he was portrayed as weak or fragile.

For improvements I'd like to see him become smarter and more efficient. How he becomes more efficient without giving up the fancy moves I don't know. Maybe more dramatic entrances to the group fights where we get the cool flips and spins to knock some guys out of the way and then back in to the great, gritty stuff.
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MarcWagz
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe its just cause I want to see a scene, on TV, like in the Devil of Hell's Kitchen, where Matt beats up 100 guys.

Okay, maybe 100 is too much for TV, but is a gang of 20-25 too much to ask?
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Dayle88
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Joined: 25 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't there about ten at the end of episode 2? They could have him fight more in a narrow alley way or something similar. I think they'll have him get smarter that will allow him to take on more guys.

Taking on a 100 Yakuza would be amazing though, one of my favourite Daredevil moments
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