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DareDevil #86 SPOILERS
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Murdock Bell
Flying Blind


Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
And the FBI character who appears in #65 is indistinguishable from the character who appears in #32, obviously. Same appearance, same disposition, same attire, same office setting. Why was no clarification provided earlier?



You mean other than the dialogue in the scan I provided, where specifically he points out that the director is someone else?

Other than that and the completely different attitude toward Matt, you mean?

Did you even read the page and posts, or are you just gonna repeat your initial and wrong assertions forever?

Maleev accidentally used the same model for both--even the dialogue points this out. Case closed.



Stephan wrote:

And Elektra's behavior, bell - ? Another art mistake, perhaps?



No, that's an obvious continuity mistake on Bendis's (and the editor's) end, at least if you're talking about the Murdock Papers thing.

I don't disagree that this (and things like the Bont inconsistency) were unfortanate blunders in an otherwise good run.
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murdock Bell wrote:
Stephan wrote:
Why did the FBI Director abruptly (and inexplicably) become a DD antagonist?



On Millarworld, and in the old Daredevil thread, the same debate was taking place on the brink of Brubaker's run.

Brubaker actually started responding, and clarified some things. He stated that the FBI Director at the end of Bendis's run was not supposed to be the same character we saw at the FBI offices during the beginning of Bendis's run, who was a much nicer and more sympathetic person.

Apparantly, Maleev drew them a bit too similarly, which is where all the confusion about contrasting behavior comes from.


Maybe I'm either too observant or not observant enough, but I always thought the FBI director in Murdock Papers was different than the one in Out. Very Happy
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, as the page Bell posted points out, the director in Out was not a director. Razz

Regardless, I never got confused on that one.

The Elektra craziness still doesn't settle well with me. If anyone can explain that one, it's Brubaker, who has already made Urich so much more hardcore than in the Murdock Papers! Cool
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Dave Wallace
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last page of this thread is hilarious.

(Incidentally, I think Mysterio's behind it all again. How else can you explain the Purple Man behaving in such an out-of-character fashion? I want issue #s and page references, dammit!) Very Happy
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fox_limbo
Humanity's Fathom


Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. I agree on that DD#86 was a grrrreat issue! Up to this point, I felt DD#83 was Brubaker's best single Daredevil issue (all the others, frankly, were used to move the chess-pieces into place for this impending prison riot).

Good God, did DD#86 deliver!!

There were two points that made it for me. And both of them, ironically, were cameo appearances (i.e. "speaking parts" for two characters).One was Milla (this being the first, verbally present Milla in a Brubaker-penned Daredevil issue) and her appearance / words sent ripple right to Matt Murdock's core. The second was Wilbur (the Gladiator). Sure, it was a tiny part in a flurry of activity, but it satisfied my need to see this character and find some semblance of resolve with this particular character since the developments of his betrayal of Matt Murdock and his abrupt incarseration. With an arc as sprawling as this one is, and with the remarkable juggling act with the cast of characters Ed Brubaker has nimbly succeeded with; those two characters' voices had sewn the rift that was left for me, as a singular reader of this arc.

Everything else was gravy.

And damn, was it ever some tasty gravy!

The manipulation of Matt Murdock by Wilson Fisk, the "betrayal" of Fisk and Bullseye. Frank Castle sitting idally by in amongst the carnage. The developments ended up being one of the more violent issues of the entirity of the Daredevil mythology. But, it also had a huge pay-off (a concept that falls through the cracks on most other issues of this violent capacity).

This was a great issue.

I am absolutely sold on Brubaker's Daredevil (then again, when have I not been?).

And one last thing... Ringmaster, rgj? Brilliant!! People can talk about Killgrave's alledged participation in these current events until their purple in the face. The Ringmaster might be obscure-villain ticket people are clambering for. Utterly brillant, rgj!!!
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ringmaster! Brubaker making the Ringmaster cool would be even more crazy than Gail Simone making Cat-Man cool! THAT would be interesting!
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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps Elektra is simply a pathological liar, Forrest. And perhaps Becky wanted Milla to get slaughtered (she used to be enamored of Matt, after all!) . Though I, too, have enjoyed Brubaker's tenure thus far, the irrational behavior of some of the principal characters continues to puzzle me.
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Darediva
Wake Up


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Perhaps Elektra is simply a pathological liar, Forrest.


Ya think? Maybe we need Wonder Woman and her truth lasso to tie things up here.


Quote:
And perhaps Becky wanted Milla to get slaughtered (she used to be enamored of Matt, after all!) .


Oh, yeah, like Becky could run faster than Milla...what a stretch there. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Though I, too, have enjoyed Brubaker's tenure thus far, the irrational behavior of some of the principal characters continues to puzzle me.


Good on Brubaker, then. He's managed to confound even the famous Stephan, who can quote every issue. Funny, I can do the same thing, as can anyone else here who has the complete run at his/her fingertips.
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your deprecating remarks are uncalled for, Alice (and they reflect rather poorly on you). Moreover, you fail to furnish a logical explanation for the perplexing behavior that I cited. Why did Elektra claim that the Murdock Papers existed when they did not? Another blunder by Bendis, perhaps? Or is there an alternative explanation?

Incodentally, I would rather be "confounded" than turn a blind eye to recurring continuity errors, inconsistencies, etc. Intelligent observers take notice of such things. Dunces readily accept whatever is presented.
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DDmikeMN wrote:
Back when Bendis/Maleev left the book, I gave Brubaker/Lark six months to prove I should keep reading this book. If I didn't say it, I thought it and definitely meant it. My hope was they would come through.

DareDevil is, for better or worse, the story of five people; Matt Murdock, Wilson Fisk, Foggy Nelson, Bullseye and whomever is the damsel of the moment. The best stories come from finding the drama between those five points. Miller's contribution of focusing on that tight circle is just as great as how he made the book more gritty and realistic.

This issue hits all five of those points and hits them hard. Foggy's memory fuels Matt's rage, Fisk uses Bulls to facilitate their escape and then it's Milla's words which bring him back to rationality. What more can you want out of an issue?

Well, I'll see you guys at issue #88. My fears about Bru/Lark coasting off the inertia of Bendis/Maleev were put aside with issue 86. This was the new creative team's opportunity to set off in their own direction with a burst and that they did.


I do think the mythos is stuck in a bit of rut, I mean those five people are important, but using the same characters over and over is tiresome. Look at Kingpin and Bullseye, their good villains, but if they are used all the time they become overexposed and stale. I'm not sating get rid of those villains, but I do think dD's B list villains like Purple man or Mr. Hyde should be built up and used more often, just so DD has a variety of challenges that he faces. Bullseye and Kingpin would still be his top villains, its just that he would fight other villains as well, on regular basis, as well.
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Darediva
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Your deprecating remarks are uncalled for, Alice (and they reflect rather poorly on you). Moreover, you fail to furnish a logical explanation for the perplexing behavior that I cited. Why did Elektra claim that the Murdock Papers existed when they did not? Another blunder by Bendis, perhaps? Or is there an alternative explanation?

Incodentally, I would rather be "confounded" than turn a blind eye to recurring continuity errors, inconsistencies, etc. Intelligent observers take notice of such things. Dunces readily accept whatever is presented.


Deprecating? Nah. Just trying to lighten it up a little. A little overreaction on your part here, bud.

I did not even begin to address "perplexing behaviours" in that post, nor did I intend to. I quoted the parts that I was addressing.

Point out where I said that I do not take note of such things. You forget to whom you are talking, sir. Name calling does not become you.

P.S. What is "incodentally"? It's not in my Cambridge Dictionary. If it's a typo, I suggest you proofread your angry little jabs before you post them.
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johndunbar
Flying Blind


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like Brubaker found a magic genie and one of his wishes was to write one of the best arcs in DD history.

I see why Bru wanted Matt in prison, that environment is a great seed, and he's adding element after element to give us a great tale.
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